Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

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Politics and Religion. We’re not supposed to talk about that, right? Wrong! We only say that nowadays because the loudest, most extreme voices have taken over the whole conversation. Well, we‘re taking some of that space back! If you’re dying for some dialogue instead of all the yelling; if you know it’s okay to have differences without having to hate each other; if you believe politics and religion are too important to let ”the screamers” drown out the rest of us and would love some engaging, provocative and fun conversations about this stuff, then ”Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other” is for you!

Episodes

4 days ago

🎧 How NOT to Talk About Politics and Religion (And we got some DOOZIES to discuss!)

4 days ago

Is there any escaping the "Us vs. Them" mindset?

🗣️ Episode Summary

What are the pitfalls of engaging in political and religious discourse—especially on platforms like TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram? Drawing from recent interactions on his posts about Israel, Trump, democracy, and faith, Corey breaks down how NOT to engage in these conversations, underscoring the dangers of generalizing, mischaracterizing, and vilifying others.

🧭 What We Explore:

The dangers of black-and-white thinking in our polarized times 🌓
The importance of maintaining relationships across political divides ❤️🤝
Why shaming and moral superiority don’t win hearts, minds—or elections 🗳️
How online toxicity and echo chambers hinder democratic dialogue 🌐⚠️

⏱️ Timestamps & Highlights

[00:00:00] Introduction: Why this all matters now more than ever
[00:02:00] Reflections on engaging across multiple social platforms
[00:04:00] Reading and responding to vile and antisemitic comments
[00:07:00] The impact of identity and assumptions on discourse
[00:09:00] “Is everyone who voted differently suddenly an enemy?” 🤔
[00:12:00] On friendships with Trump supporters and relational complexity
[00:17:00] Responding to accusations of being “complicit”
[00:21:00] The impossibility of persuading through shame or purity tests
[00:26:00] “They want to see you dead”—the danger of total dehumanization
[00:29:00] On being called a “rapist worshiper” for loving Trump voters
[00:34:00] The misuse of Scripture in political arguments 📖
[00:40:00] Critique of redistricting and political generalizations
[00:44:00] Final thoughts: Save democracy through relationship and reason ✨

🔑 Key Takeaways

Dehumanization destroys dialogue: Reducing others to labels like “enemy,” “MAGAt,” or “rapist worshiper” erodes the social fabric.
Assumptions are toxic: Many presume political affiliation tells the full story—Corey reminds us it doesn’t.
Engagement ≠ endorsement: Loving or talking to someone with different beliefs isn’t betraying your values.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

7 days ago

Drawing the Line: When Gerrymandering Becomes Political Warfare

7 days ago

🎙️ Diving back into the gerrymandering / redistricting wars and the so-called "war on democracy." Is it a real war or political hyperbole? Corey unpacks recent redistricting efforts in Texas and California, confronts ethical and legal questions, and most importantly, discusses how we talk about these issues — especially when we disagree.

From institutional norms to California’s independent redistricting commission, we'll look at a nuanced, principled stance while challenging the increasingly combative political discourse. This episode is a rallying cry for more respectful, informed, and constructive conversations. ☕🗣️

⏰ Timestamps & Topics

[00:00:00] – Hyperbolic intros & the “war” framing
[00:01:00] – Texas redistricting: legal, ethical, wise?
[00:05:00] – Comparing Texas to California’s independent commission
[00:07:00] – Is it gerrymandering or “dummymandering”?
[00:10:00] – Corey’s personal impact from redistricting lines
[00:12:00] – CalExit? Exploring state-level autonomy
[00:15:00] – What makes responses democratic vs. anti-democratic
[00:17:00] – Instead of war: How about winning votes?
[00:18:00] – Latinx & language: When messaging backfires
[00:21:00] – Listener pushback: From “coward” to “wet noodle”
[00:26:00] – Political warfare and dehumanizing rhetoric
[00:30:00] – The danger of escalating political language
[00:32:00] – What Corey is willing to risk for peace and democracy
[00:33:00] – Final thoughts: Talk politics with gentleness and respect

💡 Key Takeaways

Legal ≠ Ethical ≠ Wise: Just because something is legal, like Texas’ mid-decade redistricting, doesn’t mean it’s ethical or wise.
Independent commissions work: California's model, while imperfect, supports representative democracy and reduces partisan gerrymandering.
Respectful discourse is essential: Hyperbolic rhetoric (“war,” “enemies,” “fascists”) hinders progress and dehumanizes fellow citizens.
Real change comes from persuasion: Winning hearts, minds, and votes is more sustainable than retaliatory political tactics.
Corey’s core belief: Anti-democratic actions shouldn't be met with more anti-democratic responses.

🔊 Notable Quotes

“If everything's an existential threat, nothing's an existential threat.”

“We need to be able to talk to our neighbors, talk to our friends, talk to our loved ones that happen to feel differently about this issue.”

“You want to be right, or do you want to win?”

“I am betting on conversations — at coffee shops, over drinks, at soccer games — to preserve our democracy.”

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Thursday Aug 21, 2025

From the Streets to a PhD: Dr. Terence Lester on Faith, Educational Injustice, and Fighting for Equity in a Broken System

Thursday Aug 21, 2025

Dr. Terence Lester on overcoming poverty, confronting systemic racism in education, and how we can show up for students our schools are failing.

Introduction:
Dr. Terence Lester is an activist, speaker, professor, and founder of Love Beyond Walls, a nonprofit focused on raising awareness about poverty and homelessness. Dr. Lester shares his remarkable story—from dropping out of high school to earning a doctorate—and how personal experience shapes his advocacy. We dive deep into the topics of systemic injustice, education, faith, and what it truly means to be present with those on the margins.

What We Discuss:

How Dr. Lester’s personal journey fuels his mission
The impact of educational redlining and systemic inequality
How faith, mentors, and community shaped his life
What churches and individuals can do to respond to injustice
How to build proximity and empathy across differences

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Dr. Lester reflects on living in gratitude and grief at once
[00:05:00] The dismantling of Black history and language in public discourse
[00:10:00] How policy and redlining impacted Dr. Lester’s childhood neighborhood
[00:15:00] A teacher named Ms. West sees his potential and changes his life
[00:23:00] Mr. Moore tells Dr. Lester, “One day you’ll be a leader”
[00:31:00] His grandmother and the spiritual foundation of faith in a historic Black church
[00:36:00] A night in jail becomes a turning point in his faith journey
[00:46:00] What the church is missing—and what it could become
[00:54:00] How we can all build relationships across differences

Featured Quotes:
“Sometimes people have to borrow your courage.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“Distance is the enemy of belonging.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“You never know how far I’ve traveled to be here—and I’m not talking about geography.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“If you preach from your life’s text, you’ll never run out of material.” – Dr. Lester, quoting his Bible professor

Resources Mentioned:

Love Beyond Walls: www.lovebeyondwalls.org
From Dropout to Doctorate: www.ivpress.com/from-dropout-to-doctorate
Dr. Lester on IG: www.instagram.com/imterencelester
Dr. Lester's website: terencelester.com

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Tuesday Aug 19, 2025

Most of Us Are in the Middle — So Why Are the Extremes Controlling the Conversation?

Tuesday Aug 19, 2025

Not Right. Not Left. Not Crazy. Just Real Talk About Politics and People. 43% of Us Aren’t Partisan Left or Right. This Episode Is for You.

Reflecting on what it means to be politically independent in a time of increasing polarization. Drawing on personal stories and hot-button issues like Israel/Palestine, redistricting, and public safety, host Corey Nathan makes a compelling case for the 43% of Americans who don’t fully align with the far right or progressive left—and offers guidance on how we can still talk to each other with grace and clarity.

What Is Discussed:

The 3 main categories of political identity in America
Why a plurality of us fall into a misunderstood, complex “middle”
How to approach political conversations without labeling
What really motivates voters—and why economic messaging matters
Practical ways to connect across divides without compromising your values

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] Defining the “three buckets”: partisan right, left, and the independent middle
[00:06:30] Mislabeling in political debates – a story about Israel and being misunderstood
[00:12:00] How to hold multiple truths in the Israel/Palestine conflict
[00:15:00] On crime, Trump, and false binaries
[00:19:30] Redistricting in Texas—and why legal doesn’t mean ethical
[00:23:00] Why cost of living, not slogans, will decide 2026 & 2028 elections
[00:27:00] Do’s & don’ts for meaningful political conversations
[00:33:00] Learning from mistakes and leading with respect

Featured Quotes:
🗣️ “Go in with the goal of connecting, not convincing.” – Corey Nathan
🗣️ “The world is not black and white. The world is not Democrat or Republican.” – Corey Nathan
🗣️ “Just because we don't agree with your particular orthodoxy doesn't mean we're part of the other side.” – Corey Nathan

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Thursday Aug 14, 2025

Matthew D. Taylor: The NAR's War on Democracy & The Path to Rehumanizing Faith

Thursday Aug 14, 2025

Exposing the New Apostolic Reformation's anti-democratic Seven Mountain Mandate and its profound impact on Christian nationalism, urging a return to interreligious dialogue and Jesus' core teachings to rehumanize faith and defend liberal democracy - we're joined by Dr. Matthew D. Taylor to discuss all this and more.

Dr. Matthew D. Taylor is a leading scholar and practitioner in interfaith dialogue and a fierce advocate for pluralism in American society who holds a Ph.D. in Theological and Religious Studies with a focus on comparative religion and modern radical movements within both Christianity and Islam. He currently serves at the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies in Baltimore, where he works to dismantle antisemitism, Islamophobia, and Christian nationalism. Together, Corey and Matt explore the evolution of evangelicalism, the rise of Christian nationalism, the dangerous theology of the New Apostolic Reformation, and the crucial role of pluralistic democracy in a divided America.

What We Discuss:

Why Dr. Taylor left evangelicalism and what drew him to interfaith dialogue
The alarming growth and influence of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)
How NAR theology is shaping U.S. politics and threatening democracy
The distinction between liberal and illiberal democracy
How to rehumanize political and religious discourse in polarized environments
What Christians can do to confront authoritarianism from within their own communities

Episode Highlights:
[00:01:00] Dr. Taylor’s evangelical roots and why he left the movement
[00:05:00] From aspiring missionary to interfaith scholar: Matt’s pivotal moment in Turkey
[00:15:00] Understanding spiritual manipulation in evangelical circles
[00:25:00] Introducing the New Apostolic Reformation and the Seven Mountain Mandate
[00:37:00] How Christian nationalism is reshaping America’s political landscape
[00:45:00] Trump, prophecy, and the theological foundations of MAGA
[00:54:00] What liberal democracy means—and why it’s at risk in the U.S.
[01:03:00] A call for Christians to speak theologically against authoritarianism

Featured Quotes:

"If the propaganda is theological, the response has to be theological." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor

"We need to improve the quality of our disagreements." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor

"Right now, the propaganda holding MAGA together is theological—and Christians have a responsibility to speak into that." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor

"Jesus didn’t come to empower Christians to take power over others—he came to teach us to lay it down." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor

Resources Mentioned:

Dr. Taylor's book, The Violent Take It by Force: icjs.org/the-violent-take-it-by-force
Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies: icjs.org
Matthew D. Taylor on Substack: substack.com/@matthewdtaylor

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Monday Aug 11, 2025

Redistricting Wars: Is It Wise to Fight Fire with Fire? Lessons from a Heated Dialogue.

Monday Aug 11, 2025

Principles, Polarization, and the Perils of Partisan Shaming.

Let's dive into the heated “Redistricting Wars” in Texas, California, and other states. Using David French’s framework of “Is it legal? Is it ethical? Is it wise?”, Corey examines the legal, moral, and strategic angles of mid-decade redistricting.

From explaining the political strategies behind Texas’s proposed map changes to defending California’s independent redistricting commissions, Corey makes the case for more competitive, purple districts. He also shares a candid and sometimes heated social media exchange about whether sticking to democratic principles is the right approach when political opponents “fight dirty.”

*CORRECTION: Corey incorrectly referred to a conversation with Dr. Matthew D. Taylor. Corey incorrectly stated his first name as Michael instead of Matthew.

What Is Discussed:

Why Texas’s mid-decade redistricting is technically legal but ethically questionable
How California’s independent commissions foster competitive districts
The strategic risks of over-gerrymandering
The dangers of toxic partisanship and abandoning core principles
Why persuasion works better than shaming in political discourse

Episode highlights:

[00:02:00] Applying the “legal, ethical, wise” framework to Texas’s actions
[00:04:00] Why breaking redistricting norms is dangerous
[00:07:00] Why Corey doubts Texas will gain five seats through gerrymandering
[00:08:00] California’s purple districts and independent commissions
[00:12:00] Polling on overturning California’s commission system
[00:14:00] A revealing online exchange about principles vs. partisanship
[00:21:00] The problem with labeling all Trump voters as enemies of democracy
[00:27:00] Sticking to nonviolent, principled engagement during political urgency
[00:33:00] Why respectful persuasion beats moral grandstanding

Featured quotes:

“Is it legal? Is it ethical? Is it wise? That’s how I’m looking at this whole thing.”
“We need more purple districts—places where voters have to talk to each other, not just live in partisan silos.”
“We don’t abandon our principles when it’s convenient or when we think it’s urgent.”
“If your approach is to shame people into agreeing with you, you’re not persuading anyone—you’re pushing them away.”

Resources mentioned:

Reuters article on Texas redistricting fight: www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-led-texas-redistricting-gambit-ignites-national-arms-race-control-congress-2025-08-05/
Politicology with Ron Steslow and Mike Madrid: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cartographic-warfare-the-weekly/id1514968525?i=1000721241146

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Friday Aug 08, 2025

Thomas Chatterton Williams - SUMMER OF OUR DISCONTENT: The Age of Certainty and the Demise of Discourse

Friday Aug 08, 2025

What happened between the election of the first black president in 2008 and the reelection of Donald Trump in 2024 that's led to "the age of certainty and the demise of discourse"? Well, as the brilliant writer Thomas Chatterton Williams recounts in his new book, there was the SUMMER OF OUR DISCONTENT.

In this episode, we get to sit down with Thomas—staff writer at The Atlantic and also author of Losing My Cool and Self-Portrait in Black and White. We explore race, identity, cancel culture, and the importance of preserving liberal values in a polarized society.

What We Discuss:

How Thomas’s biracial upbringing shapes his worldview
The story behind the “Letter on Justice and Open Debate” in Harper's
What happened with the Poetry Foundation and cancel culture
Why “moral clarity” can be dangerous when journalism becomes activism
How 2020’s protests shaped national politics and the rise of MAGA

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Thomas shares the story of his parents’ interracial marriage
[00:07:00] Growing up in a household full of debate and thick skin
[00:09:00] Drafting and publishing the Harper’s letter and its backlash
[00:13:00] The Poetry Foundation controversy and institutional capture
[00:25:00] Why “moral clarity” fails when we don’t agree on morality
[00:39:00] The link between 2020 protests and January 6th
[00:45:00] Can Democrats win the center—and what candidates can break through?
[00:48:00] The toxic effects of social media on how we see each other

Featured Quotes:

"You can't really have social justice without tolerance for viewpoint diversity." – Thomas Chatterton Williams
"No one agrees on what’s morally clear. That’s why objectivity still matters." – Thomas Chatterton Williams
"People don't talk that way in person. Social media strips us of our ability to imagine someone’s humanity." – Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

The Summer of Our Discontent by Thomas Chatterton Williams: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/704632/summer-of-our-discontent-by-thomas-chatterton-williams/
Harper’s Letter: https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/
Thomas’s work at The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/thomas-chatterton-williams/
Thomas on IG: www.instagram.com/chattertonwilliams
Thomas on Twitter: x.com/thomaschattwill

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Monday Aug 04, 2025

Cheering Murder, Losing Our Soul: A Call Back to Our Shared Humanity

Monday Aug 04, 2025

How Did We Get Here? From Outrage to Applauding Atrocity

In this edition, host Corey Nathan offers a timely and deeply personal reflection on a disturbing trend in society: the growing tendency to dehumanize one another. We unpack two tragic incidents that sparked widespread and even celebratory reactions online—mass murders of corporate executives—and explore what these reactions say about our collective soul. Using real-life examples, scriptural references, and philosophical insights, the challenge is to consider how we might reclaim our shared humanity.

What Is Discussed:

How online culture enables dehumanization and moral numbness
The emotional and spiritual toll of celebrating harm toward others
Practical ways to recognize and preserve each other's humanity
The concept of Imago Dei and how it applies in daily life, even beyond religious contexts
How to model grace and kindness, even in the face of hostility

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] — Corey introduces the idea of a “vicious cycle” of dehumanization and how it suffocates our soul and hardens our hearts
[00:04:00] — The story of Wesley LePatner, CEO of Blackstone Real Estate Income Trust and the horrifying online reactions to her murder
[00:08:00] — The “Free Luigi” movement and how the celebration of violence has become normalized
[00:13:00] — A personal experience with a vile online comment and the power of grace in response
[00:18:00] — Explanation of “online disinhibition” and echo chambers as systemic drivers of dehumanization
[00:24:00] — Introduction of Imago Dei and secular philosophies that affirm basic human dignity
[00:29:00] — How Corey chose to respond thoughtfully rather than react angrily to an offensive comment
[00:34:00] — A call to action: practical steps to disrupt the cycle of dehumanization in our personal lives and broader discourse

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Thursday Jul 31, 2025

Fires, ICE, and Faith — Rev. Dr. Matthew Colwell on Immigration, Loss, and Rebuilding Community

Thursday Jul 31, 2025

What if ICE visits our church? How are we doing after the LA Fires? And how can the Church help to rebuild and heal?

In this heartfelt episode of Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other, host Corey Nathan welcomes back the Reverend Dr. Matt Colwell, Senior Pastor of Knox Presbyterian Church in Pasadena, CA. A theologian, author, and community leader, Matt opens up about losing his home in the devastating Eaton Fire, his deeply personal approach to immigrant justice, and the evolving role of the Church in times of social and political crisis. A long-time friend and spiritual guide to Corey, Matt shares how Scripture and lived experience converge to shape his ministry and public witness.

What We Discuss:

How the Eaton Fire profoundly impacted Pastor Matt and his congregation
What it looks like for a church to take a public stand on immigration and ICE enforcement
The intersection of Scripture, politics, and social ethics in Matt’s faith journey
Why churches are legally preparing for ICE visits—and how they’re doing it
The essential role of community, memory, and physical space in recovering from trauma
Strategies for engaging in tough conversations across ideological lines

Episode Highlights:
[00:01:00] Matt opens up about life after losing his home in the Eaton Fire
[00:03:00] How experiences in Guatemala and seminary shaped Matt’s understanding of faith and justice
[00:07:00] Corey and Matt explore deriving political views from scripture and the ethical challenge of self-trust
[00:14:00] Book recommendations: Lincoln’s Greatest Speech, The Dearly Beloved, and more
[00:18:00] The emotional aftermath of losing a home and the power of community response
[00:31:00] What the grieving process looks like when you lose not just a house, but identity-defining memories
[00:42:00] ICE visits to churches in Downey prompt new sanctuary policies at Knox Presbyterian
[00:47:00] How the church legally designated private spaces to protect undocumented individuals
[01:03:00] Corey’s candid reflection on preparing emotionally for hard political and religious conversations

Featured Quotes:
"When a pillar is pulled out from under you, it’s powerful to feel like God is present—and the church community is present." – Rev. Dr. Matt Colwell
"I don’t trust myself either. That’s why I need to hear different voices and read Scripture in community." – Rev. Dr. Matt Colwell
"I prepare for difficult conversations by rehearsing a mindset—not what I’ll say, but how I’ll listen." – Corey Nathan
"It’s not just stuff—it’s tied to relationships. Losing those memories feels like losing part of your identity." – Rev. Dr. Matt Colwell

Resources Mentioned:

Our God is Undocumented by Ched Myers and Matthew Colwell: orbisbooks.com/products/our-god-is-undocumented
Knox Presbyterian Church, Pasadena: knoxpasadena.org
Pastor Matt goes viral: www.instagram.com/p/DLP84OWM-4c/
Clergy and Laity United for Economic Justice: www.cluejustice.org

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Tuesday Jul 29, 2025

Misunderstood, Mislabeled, and Still Thinking About It: What to Do About Rumination

Tuesday Jul 29, 2025

Ever get stuck in those mental loops after heated conversations around politics and religion? Let's talk about it!

In this episode, host Corey Nathan opens up about the all-too-common habit of rumination—going over those difficult conversations or moments of conflict again and again. Drawing from a powerful personal story, Corey explores what rumination is, how it differs from healthy reflection, and what we can do about it.

What Is Discussed:

The difference between obsessive rumination and productive reflection
Practical strategies for self-awareness and emotional regulation
How mindfulness and meditation can help manage intrusive thoughts
Why labeling others (or being labeled) damages relationships
How to shift from argument to connection using curiosity and empathy

Episode Highlights:

00:00:50 – Introducing the topic of rumination and why it matters
00:02:00 – A personal story about a triggering interaction
00:06:00 – “My brain broke”—Corey reflects on emotional fallout
00:10:00 – Inward vs. outward strategies for interrupting rumination
00:13:00 – Self-awareness, triggers, and managing the moment
00:15:00 – Meditation and the practice of “noting”
00:18:00 – Relationship management: choose connection over being right
00:27:00 – Labeling vs. seeing someone in their full humanity

Featured Quotes:

“My brain broke. That’s how I describe it—because in that moment, something really triggered me.”
“The thought is not my identity. It’s just a thought—and I can allow it to pass.”
“If someone insists on labeling me, that’s not a relationship I want. Or at least, I’ll love them from far away.”

Resources Mentioned:

BUDDHA'S BRAIN by Rick Hanson - rickhanson.com/writings/books/buddhas-brain
Tara Brach’s resources – www.tarabrach.com

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Thursday Jul 24, 2025

Finding Purpose, Building Wealth, and Staying Grounded in Uncertain Times with Jorge Meza

Thursday Jul 24, 2025

In today's economic and political climate, how can we all keep our heads while everyone else is losing theirs? Talkin' tariffs, budget deficits, the Fed, interest rates, and all kinds of fun stuff!

In this episode of Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other, host Corey Nathan welcomes long-time friend and investment advisor Jorge Meza, CEO of Meza Wealth Management. Jorge shares his inspiring journey—from navigating a family medical crisis to building a boutique investment firm grounded in accessibility and service. The two also dive into today’s economic and political climate, and how we can all keep our heads while everyone else is losing theirs.

What We Discuss:

How Jorge’s personal experiences shaped his professional philosophy
Why investing is about more than money—it’s about people
Practical insights into tariffs, inflation, and the future of AI
How to have tough political conversations with respect and grace

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:10] – Jorge shares his daughter Jessica’s remarkable transplant story
[00:04:45] – From construction to finance: Jorge’s path to founding Meza Wealth Management
[00:07:15] – The immigrant journey that shaped Jorge’s worldview
[00:13:00] – How Jorge coaches clients through political and market volatility
[00:15:30] – Tariffs, inflation, and AI: What it all means for your money
[00:38:15] – Why an independent Federal Reserve matters
[00:41:45] – Jorge’s take on how we can disagree without division

Featured Quotes:

“We’re in the business of changing people’s lives. Someone helped me early on, and I’ve never forgotten that.” – Jorge Meza
“Very few people can outwork me. If you work hard, things can happen.” – Jorge Meza
“People are starving for respectful dialogue. We just don’t hear enough from the folks in the middle.” – Jorge Meza
“You see something to be afraid of—I see opportunity.” – Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

Meza Wealth Management: https://www.mezawealth.com
Watch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PoliticsAndReligion

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Monday Jul 21, 2025

Mastering the Minefield: How to Spot Escalation, Avoid Traps & Build Better Dialogue

Monday Jul 21, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan explores how we can navigate difficult conversations around politics and religion with more grace and effectiveness. Drawing on personal experiences, spiritual grounding, and practical techniques, Corey shares what to look out for when a conversation is going sideways and how to communicate better even in the most challenging moments.

What Is Discussed:

How to recognize when a conversation is escalating
Common communication traps and how to avoid them
How to prepare your heart and mind to actively listen
What it means to “rehearse” understanding instead of comebacks
Why identifying shared values can change the entire conversation

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:50] Signs of emotional escalation and how to spot them
[00:05:00] A simple tool to slow down: breathing
[00:07:00] The mistake of rehearsing a verbal takedown
[00:09:30] A better way: Practice being a great listener
[00:13:00] Why “shoulding” on people makes things worse
[00:15:00] The dangers of mischaracterizing entire groups
[00:21:00] Are you really listening—or just waiting to talk?
[00:24:30] Avoiding ad hominem attacks and gaslighting

Featured Quotes:

“When the emotion is so heightened that I can no longer think… that’s something to recognize before it gets out of hand.”
“Don’t rehearse the perfect burn. Rehearse listening.”
“You can reverse the neurochemical reaction of anger and fear—and induce the feeling of being heard and loved.”
“If your goal is to cause pain in a conversation, this program isn’t for you.”

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Thursday Jul 17, 2025

Trump 2.0, John MacArthur, and America's Numbed Conscience: A Special Roundtable with Lori Adams-Brown and William Wright

Thursday Jul 17, 2025

Trump 2.0 - 6 months in. How's it going? (And other light comedy...)

In this milestone 300th episode, Corey is joined by two insightful friends: Lori Adams-Brown, host of A World of Difference podcast, and William Wright, co-host of the Faithful Politics podcast. Together, they reflect on six months of the Trump 2.0 administration, rising Christian nationalism, immigration policy impacts, and the legacy of influential evangelical leaders. It’s a deep, wide-ranging, and thought-provoking roundtable about our politics, our faith, and how we can still find hope and human connection across differences.

What We Discuss:

The real-life impacts of recent immigration policies
What’s fueling political tribalism and conspiracy culture
How trauma can influence dogmatism in both politics and religion
A candid look at John MacArthur’s controversial legacy
How we can better communicate across ideological divides

Episode Highlights:
• [00:01:00] Celebrating episode 300 with Lori and Will
• [00:02:00] Lori shares real stories of deportation affecting families in California
• [00:05:00] Corey’s church discusses ICE raid response policy
• [00:08:00] Will details surprising legal shifts and executive orders
• [00:13:00] Backlash over Chip and Joanna Gaines and identity politics
• [00:23:00] How polarization and pain are intertwined
• [00:39:00] Where can we still find hope, even now?
• [00:51:00] Reflecting on John MacArthur’s impact and abuse cover-ups
• [01:03:00] How to talk politics and religion without killing each other

Featured Quotes:
“Dogmatism is often a response to trauma.” — Lori Adams-Brown
“Bad people can sometimes do things that help good people.” — William Wright
“You don’t have a depression issue, you have a sin issue — that’s what they told me. And that was crushing.” — Corey Nathan
“It’s not about what you think, it’s about who you hate. That’s how people are being politically labeled now.” — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:
• Faithful Politics Podcast – faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
• A World of Difference Podcast – www.loriadamsbrown.com/podcast
• Book: White Evangelical Racism by Anthea Butler - uncpress.org/book/9781469681511/white-evangelical-racism-second-edition/

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Lori is

www.loriadamsbrown.com
LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/loriadamsbrown
Instagram - instagram.com/loriadamsbrown

Will is

youtube.com/c/faithfulpoliticspodcast
Threads - threads.com/@faithful_politics
Facebook - facebook.com/FaithfulPoliticsPodcast

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

---

Thank you for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Monday Jul 14, 2025

The Skipper's Moral Compass: A Navy SEAL Commander on Ethical Leadership & Navigating Today's Political Waters

Monday Jul 14, 2025

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Roger Herbert—retired Navy Captain, former SEAL commander, professor of ethics, and distinguished academic. Dr. Herbert’s career spans from leading undersea special operations to teaching future naval officers at the U.S. Naval Academy. We explore Dr. Herbert's remarkable journey marked by leadership, ethics, and profound moral challenges. Dr. Herbert shares stories of combat, personal transformation, and the vital importance of principled leadership—even under the most extreme conditions.

---

CORRECTION: Roger has advised me that he misspoke when he described a SEAL operation in Anbar Province. Operation Redwings, the 2005 SEAL reconnaissance mission that inspired the book/movie "Lone Survivor," took place in Afghanistan's Kunar Province. (Anbar is a province in Iraq.)

---

What We Discuss:

* The intense process of becoming and leading Navy SEALs

* How war can spark deep ethical reflection and personal evolution

* What moral leadership looks like in combat zones—and classrooms

* Why teaching ethics to future military leaders is more important than ever

* How pivotal life decisions can stem from unexpected, even humorous, moments

---

Featured Quotes:

“The secret sauce of being a SEAL is learning how far you can really go—and it’s always further than you think.” – Dr. Roger Herbert
“We push candidates to what they *think* is their limit… and then some crazy few keep going. That’s where we find the SEALs.”
“Ethics isn’t just theory—it’s what helps you come home with honor.”
“We don’t swear loyalty to a person. We swear to a document. That’s the power of the U.S. Constitution.”

---

Resources Mentioned:

* Dr. Roger Herbert’s Substack - rogerherbert.substack.com

* The Ethics of Special Ops: Raids, Recoveries, Reconnaissance, and Rebels - https://www.amazon.com/Ethics-Special-Ops-Recoveries-Reconnaissance-ebook/dp/B0CLGJK8R6?ref_=ast_author_dp&th=1&psc=1

* Ethics at War: How Should Military Personnel Make Ethical Decisions? - https://www.amazon.com/Ethics-War-Military-Personnel-Decisions-ebook/dp/B0CKFGDXQY?ref_=ast_author_dp&th=1&psc=1

---

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

It's @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

---

Thank you for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Thursday Jul 10, 2025

Do You Want To Be Right Or The Relationship? Why We Insist on Being Right in Politics & Beyond

Thursday Jul 10, 2025

In this solo episode, host Corey Nathan shares a personal story that explores a fundamental question many of us face in political and relational discourse: “Do you want to be right, or do you want the relationship?” Prompted by a real-life interaction following his attendance at a local rally, Corey examines how we navigate our convictions, the costs of being “right,” and the cognitive, identity-based, and psychological roots that underlie our desire to win arguments—especially at the expense of connection.

What Is Discussed:

The real story behind a tense political exchange among friends.
The importance of prioritizing relationships over ideological victory.
Key psychological and sociological reasons why people insist on being right.
How identity, ego, and group affiliation shape our perceptions in political dialogue.
Thoughtful strategies to promote civil discourse, even across ideological lines.

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:00] Corey describes the No Kings Rally in Santa Clarita and his motivation for attending.
[00:05:00] A group text spirals into conflict after a friend posts a divisive meme about Democrats.
[00:07:00] Corey challenges the assumptions being made and asserts his conservative identity.
[00:10:00] The text conversation intensifies—Corey confronts the damaging generalizations.
[00:13:00] He reflects on the absence of actual conversation and the importance of listening.
[00:20:00] Corey shares research on cognitive biases like confirmation bias and bandwagon effect.
[00:24:00] A powerful explanation of identity protective cognition and how it affects discourse.
[00:29:00] The psychological roots of being “right”: ego, fear, insecurity, and narcissism.
[00:31:00] A parable of two billy goats illustrates the cost of refusing to give ground.

Featured Quotes:
“Do you want to be right, or do you want the relationship?”
“The endeavor that I care about is people exercising their First Amendment rights.”
“If we were actually talking, you'd know this isn't even in my top 50 concerns.”
“We don’t need to diminish others to hold our convictions.”

📣 Call to Action:

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

It's @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Thank you for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Monday Jul 07, 2025

Mike Madrid on the Latino Electorate, Trump's Win in 2024 and What It Means for the Soul of America

Monday Jul 07, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes back political consultant, author, and Substack contributor Mike Madrid. A renowned expert on Latino voters and co-founder of the Lincoln Project, Mike brings his profound insights on American politics, identity, and democracy. Together, Corey and Mike explore deeply personal stories, historical context, and present-day political dynamics, all while weaving in the emotional fabric that connects generations and communities.

What We Discuss:

The significance of personal and familial stories in shaping political perspective
How Latino voters are reshaping American democracy
The danger of authoritarian tendencies in U.S. governance
Economic populism across ideological divides
The importance of understanding and communicating with working-class communities

Episode Highlights:

[00:04:00] Mike Madrid shares a personal story of grief and connection through a pilgrimage to Madrid, New Mexico
[00:08:00] Baseball as a bridge between generations and its deeper cultural significance
[00:14:00] Inhumane immigration enforcement and its implications on American identity
[00:22:00] A discussion on whether America is at a turning point for its soul and values
[00:33:00] Vertical balance of power: Newsom vs. federal overreach in L.A. protests
[00:45:00] Latino voters' top concerns: economy, housing, and healthcare
[00:53:00] Economic populism through Ruben Gallego and Zoran Mamdani's campaigns
[01:03:00] How to talk about politics and religion without killin' each other

Featured Quotes:

"Sometimes the stories we tell ourselves matter more than the facts we can verify." – Mike Madrid
"This is our American story now. This is who we are... and if we're not speaking out, then we are individually complicit in it." – Mike Madrid
"These are the moments when character is defined." – Mike Madrid
"The best way to talk about politics and religion is to not talk about it through the lens of politics and religion." – Mike Madrid

Resources Mentioned:

Mike Madrid's Substack: The Great Transformation – greattransformation.substack.com
The Latino Century (book by Mike Madrid) – www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Latino-Century/Mike-Madrid/9781668015278
Latino Vote Podcast – latinos.vote
Reflections on Marines in LA by Roger Herbert – rogerherbert.substack.com/p/reflections-on-marines-in-la

📣 Call to Action:

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

It's @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Thank you for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Thursday Jul 03, 2025

(ICYMI) Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde on Faith, Politics, and Ethical Conversations in a Polarized Nation

Thursday Jul 03, 2025

This was such a refreshing conversation with Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde. We recorded it just after she delivered the homily at the National Cathedral the day after the inauguration. Bishop Budde's candor, winsomeness and wisdom shines through in all circumstances - whether it's before a worldwide audience or upon earnest reflection of the impact of her ministry. And there's something healing in all of this. So it's certainly worth revisiting our discussion going into this national holiday weekend. Enjoy...

In this timely edition of Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other, host Corey Nathan welcomes Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, D.C., and the Washington National Cathedral. Bishop Budde is a well-respected spiritual leader who has appeared on PBS NewsHour, Meet the Press, Good Morning America, and The Today Show.

The conversation dives into Bishop Budde’s faith journey, her reflections on political and social issues, and her approach to leading with grace and courage in divisive times. The discussion also touches on the controversy surrounding her sermon and how she directly addressed Donald Trump at the National Cathedral following the 2025 presidential inauguration.

What We Discuss

Bishop Budde’s personal faith journey, from her early religious experiences to her leadership in the Episcopal Church.
The challenges of navigating faith, politics, and national unity in today’s polarized climate.
How to extend grace and practice mercy even in the face of criticism.
The role of the church in advocating for social justice, particularly regarding immigration and LGBTQ+ rights.
Strategies for engaging in difficult conversations while maintaining mutual respect.

Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] – Introduction to the episode and guest, Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde.

[00:02:00] – Bishop Budde shares her faith journey and the struggles she faced reconciling different religious influences.

[00:10:00] – The tension between faith and exclusivity: why some versions of Christianity felt limiting to her.

[00:15:00] – The discipline of grace: choosing to respond with compassion rather than anger, even when faced with opposition.

[00:26:00] – Bishop Budde’s response to the 2025 presidential inauguration sermon controversy and the importance of speaking truth with love.

[00:38:00] – Handling criticism and maintaining a sense of personal and spiritual balance.

[00:52:00] – Finding hope in uncertain times: How we can cultivate a spirit of resilience and faith amid societal challenges.

[00:55:00] – The importance of dialogue: How to foster better conversations across political and religious differences.

[01:03:00] – Final thoughts and how to follow Bishop Budde’s work.

Featured Quotes

"If it’s not about love, it’s not about God." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"The discipline of grace is a practice, not a gift. It’s about choosing to respond with love even when it’s difficult." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"To be raised from the dead—whatever that means in our own lives—requires our consent to live again, to have our hearts broken again, and to take on all of life again." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"We need to ask ourselves: When was the last time I changed my mind? True dialogue requires being open to seeing the world differently." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

Resources Mentioned

Bishop Budde’s Book: How We Learn to Be Brave
Episcopal Diocese of Washington – www.edow.org

📣 Call to Action

🔗 Connect on Social Media

It's @coreysnathan on...

Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

Episcopal Church of Washington: Website

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Thank you for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

#Politics #Religion #NeverTrump #Democracy #BishopBudde #Faith #Justice #Inclusivity #SocialJustice #Civility #Polarization

Monday Jun 30, 2025

Faith, Freedom, and the Fight for the 1st Amendment: Daniel Mach of the ACLU on Kennedy v. Bremerton, Religious Charter Schools, and Resisting Trump-Era Overreach

Monday Jun 30, 2025

In this timely episode of "Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other," host Corey Nathan speaks with Professor Daniel Mach, Director of the ACLU Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief and adjunct professor of law at the George Washington University Law School. They explore the complexities of First Amendment rights, the historical Scopes Trial, and the fine line between religious freedom and government endorsement of religion.

What We Discuss:

How Daniel Mach’s passion for First Amendment law began.
The ACLU’s approach to defending speech across ideological lines.
Key legal principles behind landmark cases like Kennedy v. Bremerton.
The modern-day impact of church-state separation rulings.
The importance of defending civil liberties regardless of popularity.

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Dan’s origin story, sparked by a high school paper on the Scopes Trial.
[00:05:00] ACLU’s surprising position in the Boston Christian flag case.
[00:09:00] The real facts behind Kennedy v. Bremerton School District.
[00:23:00] Historical insight into the Scopes Trial and why it still matters.
[00:38:00] Breakdown of the opt-out debate in Mahmoud v. Montgomery County.
[00:48:00] Can a Catholic public school exist? Oklahoma says maybe.
[00:56:00] Concerns about threats to the rule of law.
[01:00:00] How to speak across ideological divides and why it matters.

Featured Quotes:
"Rights for all — the right to speak even hateful things — triggered something in my mind where I thought, yeah, that's the way to go." – Daniel Mach
"If the rules only protect people you like, then those rules are not rules at all." – Daniel Mach
"Part of religious liberty is keeping religion and government separate — not just to protect government, but to protect religion." – Daniel Mach

Resources Mentioned:
ACLU: https://www.aclu.org
Kennedy v. Bremerton: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2021/21-418
Scopes Trial History: https://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties/scopes-trial
Mahmoud v. Montgomery County: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-297_4f14.pdf
Oklahoma Catholic Charter School Ruling: https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/05/split-supreme-court-blocks-first-religious-charter-school-in-oklahoma/

📣 Call to Action:

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

It's @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Let’s keep talkin' politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Wednesday Jun 25, 2025

Transforming Campaigns: Mike Nellis Discusses Political and Fundraising Strategies to Combat Anti-Democratic Threats

Wednesday Jun 25, 2025

In this episode, we're joined by Mike Nellis, founder of Authentic and executive chairman of QUILLER. Mike shares his journey from early political engagement to founding a values-driven digital agency and a pioneering AI platform. He opens up about overcoming personal mental health challenges and emphasizes the importance of empathy, leadership, and responsive government.

What We Discuss:

How Mike Nellis turned a toxic workplace experience into a successful values-based company.
Why mental health and workplace culture are core pillars of Mike’s leadership.
The strategic role of AI in political campaigns and how it’s changing the game.
Insights on effective fundraising, the current political climate, and what the Democratic Party needs to do differently.

Episode Highlights:

01:00 – Mike’s introduction and political fundraising background
02:00 – Leaving a toxic workplace and founding Authentic
04:00 – Mike’s personal journey through mental health and weight loss
07:00 – His daily mental health “toolkit”
12:00 – From Republican household to Obama rally
19:00 – Mike’s evolving political values and client strategies
27:00 – Firsthand experience confronting political abuse of power
35:00 – Diagnosing what went wrong in the 2024 election
48:00 – Navigating AI ethics and strategy
53:00 – Endless Urgency: Mike’s life motto and Substack

Featured Quotes:
“Every day, you should do something for your mind, your body, and your spirit.” – Mike Nellis
“Politics is a game of addition, not subtraction.” – Mike Nellis
“I want a government that shows up when people need it—and then gets out of the way.” – Mike Nellis

Resources Mentioned:

QUILLER.ai – https://www.quiller.ai
Authentic – https://authentic.org/
Endless Urgency Substack – https://endlessurgency.substack.com
@mikenellis.bsky.social‬ | www.threads.com/@mike_nellis

📣 Call to Action:

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

It's @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Let’s keep talkin' politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Monday Jun 23, 2025

Vote Common Good: Pastor Doug Pagitt on the Emergent Church and "Exit Ramps" for Engaging Faith Voters

Monday Jun 23, 2025

In this episode, Corey Nathan is joined by Pastor Doug Pagitt, Executive Director of Vote Common Good. Doug shares his remarkable journey from a non-religious upbringing to becoming a prominent voice in progressive evangelicalism. They discuss how his background in sociology and theology shapes his view of faith, culture, and politics, and how those insights drive his current work helping religious voters engage civically with integrity and hope.

What We Discuss:

How Doug Pagitt came to faith and ministry outside traditional church upbringing
What the Emergent Church is and why it matters
How anthropology influences theology
What motivated Pastor Doug to start Vote Common Good
How Democrats can meaningfully engage religious voters

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Introduction to Doug’s background and Vote Common Good
[00:03:00] Doug’s faith story and early questions about Christianity
[00:08:00] Embracing scripture through open interpretation
[00:17:00] The Emergent Church explained
[00:30:00] Why Vote Common Good was founded
[00:43:00] Surprising insights from their faith voter polling
[00:54:00] Six words to win back religious voters
[01:02:00] Where Democrats often miss the mark

Featured Quotes:

“I didn’t have to unlearn a Sunday school version of Christianity. I got to take Jesus at face value.”
“We’re not asking candidates to be Christians. We’re asking them to like Christians.”
“The difference between being required and being invited makes all the difference.”
“Human beings organize our lives around patterns. The danger is when we mistake those patterns for the divine.”

Resources Mentioned:

Vote Common Good: https://www.votecommongood.com
Doug Pagitt’s books: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Doug+Pagitt

📣 Call to Action:

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

It's @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Let’s keep talkin' politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Thursday Jun 19, 2025

Us vs. Them: Practical Ways to Counter the Polarization That's Killing Us

Thursday Jun 19, 2025

In this solo episode, host Corey Nathan explores how the "us vs. them" mindset is damaging our democracy and personal relationships. Sharing powerful stories and reflections, Corey examines how this mentality can escalate from figurative harm to literal violence—and what we can do to stop it.

What Is Discussed:

How to recognize and avoid “us vs. them” thinking
Why specificity matters more than generalizations
How to reframe conversations to foster understanding
When it’s best to disengage from toxic interactions

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] The real-life consequences of political tribalism
[00:03:00] How a quote from the Declaration of Independence sparked online hostility
[00:15:00] Why generalizing leads to vilification
[00:21:00] Reactions to the peaceful “No Kings” rally
[00:28:00] How to name and address divisive rhetoric
[00:34:00] When it’s healthier to walk away

Featured Quotes:

"Think specifically, not generally."
"Shift our disposition from facing off to side by side."
"Sometimes, you just gotta know when to walk away."

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Monday Jun 16, 2025

Muster Your Courage & Heal Our Civic Square with Liz Joyner, Founder and President of The Village Square

Monday Jun 16, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes Liz Joyner, founder and president of The Village Square, a civic organization dedicated to bridging divides and fostering dialogue across political and cultural lines. Liz shares the story behind founding The Village Square, her passion for preserving democratic values, and her experience navigating political polarization with grace, humor, and tenacity. As dear friends and collaborators, Corey and Liz offer listeners a heartfelt and insightful conversation about the importance of disagreement, empathy, and genuine connection.

What You Will Learn:

How Liz Joyner built The Village Square to combat political divisiveness
The power of human connection and shared experiences in fostering civic trust
Key strategies for having meaningful conversations across ideological divides
Why now is a pivotal moment for preserving democracy and civil discourse
How personal stories and experiences shape our political views and actions

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Introduction to Liz Joyner and her work with The Village Square
[00:06:00] Reflecting on her family’s military background and public service
[00:13:00] The key question: How can we engage across our differences?
[00:22:00] The role of The Village Square’s God Squad in promoting interfaith dialogue
[00:31:00] The psychological roots of tribalism and political polarization
[00:50:00] The threat to public humanities and the importance of civic institutions
[01:00:00] Liz’s favorite spot in D.C. and its symbolic value for democracy

Featured Quotes:

“We just need to do it. Reach out. Make the call. Share a meal. Be human.”
“When we see others up close, we see their good intentions. That’s where empathy begins.”
“Disagreement, done well, is the genius behind our democracy.”
“The genius of our system is that it relies on heterogeneity—on us learning from each other.”

Resources Mentioned:

The Village Square: villagesquare.us
The Constitution of Knowledge by Jonathan Rauch: www.brookings.edu/books/the-constitution-of-knowledge
Roger Herbert's Substack: https://rogerherbert.substack.com
The National Portrait Gallery: https://npg.si.edu

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Friday Jun 13, 2025

Kamy Akhavan on What's Actually Happening in Los Angeles, the Root Causes, and Bridging Our Divides

Friday Jun 13, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes Kamy Akhavan, Executive Director at the USC Dornsife Center for the Political Future and former CEO of ProCon.org. Kamy shares his extraordinary journey from war-torn Iran to becoming a champion of civil discourse and political bridge-building in the United States.

What We Discuss:

Kamy’s powerful immigration story and personal connection to today’s immigration challenges
What's actually happening in Los Angeles vs what many news programs are showing
How debate and listening helped shape Kamy’s open-minded leadership
The mission of USC’s Center for the Political Future and its bipartisan impact
The root causes of polarization and how we can counteract them
Why respect, listening, and humility are foundational for meaningful dialogue

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Kamy’s homage to Parliament Funkadelic and Sly Stone
[00:06:00] Living through war in Iran and escaping with his family
[00:14:00] Adjusting to poverty in Louisiana and finding strength in education
[00:18:00] Discovering a passion for political discourse through debate
[00:27:00] Leaving management consulting to lead ProCon.org
[00:30:00] Kamy's role at USC’s Center for the Political Future
[00:39:00] Building a culture where tough conversations can happen respectfully
[00:55:00] A deeper look into today’s immigration debates and polarization

Featured Quotes:
"Every person you meet knows more than you do about something. If you approach with humility, every conversation becomes a chance to learn." — Kamy Akhavan
"If you really want to be a powerful advocate for your cause, the best tool you have isn’t your mouth—it’s your ears." — Kamy Akhavan
"We all inherit democracy. And that inheritance is a gift many have died for." — Kamy Akhavan

Resources Mentioned:

USC Dornsife Center for the Political Future: https://dornsife-center-for-political-future.usc.edu/
ProCon.org: https://www.procon.org/
The Democracy Group: https://www.democracygroup.org/

📣 Call to Action:

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Tuesday Jun 10, 2025

Andrew Heaton: Tribalism Is Dumb – Why We're Hardwired for Division & How to Cope

Tuesday Jun 10, 2025

In this insightful and often humorous episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes political satirist, author, and podcast host Andrew Heaton for a wide-ranging conversation about his latest book, Tribalism Is Dumb. Heaton, known for his podcast The Political Orphanage, brings his signature blend of wit, intellect, and candor to explore why politics has become so viciously tribal—and how we can fix it. Drawing from personal stories, deep research, and evolutionary psychology, Heaton discusses the roots of human division, the impact of media and technology, and the path to a more thoughtful public discourse.

What We Discuss:

Why tribalism is hardwired into human nature—and how it gets misapplied in modern politics
How Heaton’s upbringing influenced his commitment to civility and intellectual rigor
The role of media, social media, and political leadership in fostering division
Practical tools for having productive, respectful political conversations
What we can do—personally and societally—to resist toxic partisanship

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Intro to Andrew Heaton and his new book
[00:02:30] The story behind the dedication to Heaton’s father
[00:06:45] Heaton’s early political influences
[00:10:15] How Heaton preps for his many podcasts
[00:21:00] The evolutionary roots of tribalism
[00:34:00] Protestant vs. Catholic soccer rivalry in Scotland
[00:36:30] What changed in the last few decades
[00:55:00] Tools for better political conversations

Featured Quotes:

"There are lots of people that we share this country with that are good and intelligent people. The fact that we disagree with them is not a negation of their humanity." – Andrew Heaton
"The need for an enemy precipitates the existence of the enemy." – Andrew Heaton
"Tribalism is not just about community. It’s about the reflexive urge to find a ‘them’ to define the ‘us.’" – Andrew Heaton
"I just try to remember: we’re not arguing about whether you're a good person. I already believe you are." – Andrew Heaton

Resources Mentioned:

The Political Orphanage podcast: https://mightyheaton.com/the-political-orphanage
Tribalism Is Dumb by Andrew Heaton: https://mightyheaton.com/books
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Bowling-Alone/Robert-D-Putnam/9780743203043
How to Have Impossible Conversations by Peter Boghossian: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/peter-boghossian/how-to-have-impossible-conversations/9780738285344/

📣 Call to Action:

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Saturday Jun 07, 2025

Dialogue Killers Revealed: Beat Ad Hominem & Proxies to Reclaim Civil Political Talk

Saturday Jun 07, 2025

In this edition, host Corey Nathan dives into two behaviors that shut down meaningful dialogue before it even starts: ad hominem attacks and treating individuals as proxies for groups. Drawing from real-life interactions and candid personal stories, Corey illustrates why civil discourse matters now more than ever.

What Is Discussed:

Why personal attacks destroy productive dialogue
How assuming people represent an entire group harms mutual understanding
Strategies for better conversations: passive, defensive, and proactive
Why labels and assumptions often miss the mark
The power of treating others as individuals with unique stories

Episode Highlights:

1:00 – Defining the two dialogue killers: ad hominem and proxy labeling
2:00 – A local mayor faces national-level hostility in small-town politics
4:00 – A neighborly disagreement about family farms shows how it can be done right
5:00 – Corey’s impassioned reaction to toxic comments and attacks
10:00 – When people are reduced to stand-ins for political ideologies
14:00 – Facebook comments spiral as users resort to vilifying each other
19:00 – Setting realistic expectations when engaging across divides
27:00 – “I will not defend positions I don’t hold”—drawing healthy boundaries
30:00 – Lessons from the fight for marriage equality: changing hearts through human connection
33:00 – Passive, defensive, and proactive strategies to communicate better

Featured Quotes:

“People are people—not proxies...”
“I will not defend positions that I don’t hold.”
“You’re not talking to ‘them,’ you’re talking to me.”
“Go talk some politics and religion with gentleness and respect.”

📣 Call to Action:

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Monday Jun 02, 2025

Bishop Mary D. Glasspool, Trailblazing Leader in the Episcopal Church, on Challenging Tradition and Navigating Faith

Monday Jun 02, 2025

In this inspiring episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes Bishop Mary D. Glasspool, a pioneering leader in the Episcopal Church and the first openly lesbian woman to be consecrated as a bishop in the Anglican Communion. Since 2016, she has served as Assistant Bishop in the Episcopal Diocese of New York. Bishop Mary shares her personal journey of faith, identity, leadership, and inclusion, offering insights into navigating the intersections of religion, politics, and justice.

What We Discuss:

Bishop Mary’s journey as a trailblazer in the Episcopal Church
How her faith and identity evolved in tandem
What the Philadelphia 11 meant to her and the church
Navigating hard conversations across deep differences
What gives her hope for the future of the church and the world

Episode Highlights:

01:00 – Corey introduces Bishop Mary and her groundbreaking role
06:00 – Growing up in a multigenerational Episcopal family
17:00 – The impact of the Philadelphia 11 and her call to ministry
27:00 – Coming out and confronting institutional theology
34:00 – Stories of ministry, mentorship, and pioneering women
43:00 – Navigating political division in local churches
50:00 – Her retirement plans and what’s next
1:02:00 – On non-binary thinking, listening deeply, and collaboration

Featured Quotes:

“We can do this. It is possible to talk politics and religion without killing each other.”
“The best way to be ecumenical is to be deeply rooted and grounded in your own faith.”
“Diversity is a strength… It can help us grow and become stronger as human beings.”
“We need to allow for silence. We need to listen.”

Resources Mentioned:

The Philadelphia Eleven Documentary: https://www.philadelphiaelevenfilm.com
The Episcopal Church: https://www.episcopalchurch.org

📣 Call to Action:

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Thursday May 29, 2025

Reasoned Humility: Pastor David Hegg on Theology, Differences, and Engaging Culture

Thursday May 29, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan is joined by Pastor David Hegg, Senior Pastor at Grace Baptist Church in Santa Clarita, CA. With decades of experience, a master’s in theology, and a doctorate in preaching, Pastor Hegg shares his unique journey into ministry, his thoughts on biblical teaching, and how Christians can faithfully navigate today’s cultural and political landscape.

What We Discuss:

How Pastor Hegg's early struggles shaped his path in ministry
The importance of preaching Scripture as it was originally written
A biblical approach to Christian leadership and cultural engagement
Insights into the role of conscience in political decision-making
Why “reasoned humility” is essential for healthy public discourse

Episode Highlights:

00:04:00 – From mowing the church lawn to pastoring a large congregation
00:10:00 – Disputes over doctrine: seminary conflict and church governance
00:19:00 – Faith vs. science: Genesis, creationism, and biblical authority
00:25:00 – Why many pastors feel exhausted, and how to sustain ministry
00:30:00 – Handling political pressure and cultural division during COVID
00:36:00 – Engaging LGBTQ+ individuals with truth and grace
00:43:00 – What it means to “withdraw” from politics without disengaging
00:54:00 – Preview of Pastor Hegg’s upcoming books and a theological novel

Featured Quotes:

“What God has for us is always best for us.” – Pastor David Hegg
“We must hold our beliefs with reasoned humility.”
“You can’t come to any text without a framework, but you must be willing to reform that framework based on Scripture.”
“We don’t throw darts—we meet people where they are and walk with them.”

Resources Mentioned:

Grace Baptist Church: gracebaptist.org
The Obedience Option: www.amazon.com/s?k=The+Obedience+Option+David+Hegg
The Well: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=The+Well+David+Hegg
Mind & Cosmos by Thomas Nagel: www.goodreads.com/book/show/13690432-mind-cosmos

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Monday May 26, 2025

(ICYMI) Sussing out Excellent Journalism from All the Crap with Julie Mason, SiriusXM Radio Host and Former White House Reporter

Monday May 26, 2025

“You’ve got to be willing to kick your sources right in the balls if necessary, even if they’re your friends.”

Julie Mason came up the ranks at regional newspapers before becoming a White House reporter. On her SiriusXM radio show, you can tell how much she loves and champions good reporters and reveres excellent journalism. And that's one of the many reasons we love Julie Mason! So we're re-booting our most recent conversation with Julie from earlier this year...

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with Julie Mason, renowned journalist and host of The Julie Mason Show on SiriusXM’s POTUS channel. Julie brings decades of experience in journalism, spanning local, state, and national politics, and shares her sharp insights on the evolving media landscape, political discourse, and the state of journalism today.

What We Discuss:

The evolving role of journalists in a polarized media environment.
How to navigate news consumption and discern credible sources.
Insights into the challenges of covering politicians and divisive topics.
The growing intersection between social media platforms and journalism.
Why re-engaging with quality news content is critical to democracy.
Mike Pence: The King of Hilarity... Wait. WHAT?!?! No, really

Episode Highlights:

[00:00:00] – Corey welcomes Julie back to the podcast after four years and reflects on her journey in journalism, from print reporting to hosting her SiriusXM show.
[00:09:00] – Julie explains how she transitioned from print to radio and why she took the leap into the unfamiliar world of broadcasting.
[00:20:00] – The challenges of modern journalism: Julie addresses disinformation, lies in politics, and why reporters must focus on stories that truly impact people’s lives.
[00:27:00] – A discussion on how journalism is evolving to meet the needs of a fatigued audience, from long-form storytelling to true crime podcasts.
[00:40:00] – Julie emphasizes the importance of journalists remaining stoic and professional, especially during major historical events like January 6th.
[00:47:00] – Corey and Julie explore ways to have constructive conversations with people across ideological divides, drawing inspiration from bipartisan efforts in Congress.
[00:55:00] – Julie’s call to action: Why supporting quality journalism through subscriptions and active engagement matters more than ever.

Featured Quotes:

“You’ve got to be willing to kick your sources right in the balls if necessary, even if they’re your friends.”
“Politician lied is not really the story—focus on what impacts people’s lives.”
“To have meaningful conversations, you have to put down your weapons and see the humanity in the other person.”

Resources Mentioned:

The Julie Mason Show on SiriusXM’s POTUS Channel – www.siriusxm.com/channels/potus-politics
Substack Recommendations:
Dirty John Podcast – Listen Here

📣 Call to Action:

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@julesdc

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Thursday May 22, 2025

ICYMI - Wajahat Ali: Navigating Chaos and Divisiveness with Hope and Humanity

Thursday May 22, 2025

A lot's happened already this year. So it's worth re-setting this conversation with friend of the pod, Wajahat Ali, from earlier this year...

When there's such chaos amd divisiveness all around us, what can we do to cultivate a sense of hope and humanity?

In this episode, we welcome back Wajahat Ali, celebrated writer, editor of The Left Hook Substack, co-host of Democracy-ish Podcast, and author. Known for his humor and insight, Waj brings his unique perspective as a father, storyteller, and political commentator to discuss navigating the tumultuous political and social landscape of 2025. Together, Corey and Wajahat dive deep into themes of decency, empathy, and how to cultivate hope amid chaos.

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] Wajahat muses about earning a "Five Timer Club" t-shirt.
[00:04:00] Discussion on the California wildfires and the politicization of natural disasters.
[00:06:00] Wajahat analyzes the blame game targeting DEI initiatives in crisis situations.
[00:09:00] Corey and Wajahat explore the role of empathy and decency in politics.
[00:11:00] Wajahat reflects on hope during his daughter’s cancer journey and how that translates to political resilience.
[00:16:00] Star Wars analogy: How everyday people (the "Ewoks") can fight against authoritarianism.
[00:22:00] A candid discussion on America's historical resistance to progress and how that impacts the current political climate.
[00:35:00] The importance of rest and joy in sustaining activism and engagement.
[00:54:00] Wajahat’s advice on engaging with people across ideological divides—when to plant seeds of change and when to walk away.

Featured Quotes:

"Hope is optimism with action. It's believing in a better story but doing your part to get there." – Wajahat Ali
"You can't save everyone. The caravan must move forward, but the doors remain open." – Wajahat Ali
"We could have been so much better, and we chose this." – Wajahat Ali
"One conversation with one person can create a ripple effect. Even a one-degree shift can matter." – Corey Nathan

How to find Waj:

The Left Hook | https://thelefthook.substack.com/
Democracy-ish | https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/democracy-ish/id1473376303
Bluesky | https://bsky.app/profile/wajali.bsky.social

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Sunday May 18, 2025

Standing with Ukraine: Alexander Vindman on U.S. Foreign Policy, Putin’s Threat, and the Folly of Trumpism

Sunday May 18, 2025

In this episode, we welcome back Dr. Alexander Vindman—retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel and former Director for European Affairs on the White House National Security Council. Known for his key role in the first Trump impeachment and his deep expertise in Eastern European affairs, Vindman returns to discuss his latest book, The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine. The conversation dives into the geopolitical stakes of the ongoing war in Ukraine, U.S. foreign policy across administrations, and the importance of civic responsibility in the face of authoritarianism.

What We Discuss:

Why U.S. administrations consistently misunderstood Russia and Ukraine.
The concept of “Neo-Idealism” and its value in foreign policy.
How family history and personal experience shaped Vindman’s worldview.
The political realities facing Ukraine and the U.S. in a post-Trump world.
The role of values in sustaining democratic institutions.

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Introduction to Alexander Vindman and his background.
[00:04:30] Alex's twin brother Eugene Vindman’s transition to Congress and bipartisan cooperation.
[00:17:00] Reconnecting with family in Ukraine and the impact of history.
[00:25:00] The thousand-year struggle for Ukrainian sovereignty.
[00:38:00] Why equating Russia with Cold War power is misguided.
[00:44:30] Vindman defines “Neo-Idealism” and its global implications.
[01:00:00] The danger of Trumpism and dismantling of democratic norms.
[01:07:00] How we can engage across political and cultural divides.

Featured Quotes:

“Russia, absent Ukraine, ceases to be an empire. With Ukraine, it becomes one.” – Alexander Vindman
“Neo-Idealism is about tethering our interests to our values and committing to them over the long term.” – Alexander Vindman
“We succumbed to misplaced hopes and fears. We thought if we treated Russia as a partner, it would behave like one.” – Alexander Vindman
“You can find common ground by talking about family. That’s where our shared concerns lie.” – Alexander Vindman

Resources Mentioned:

The Folly of Realism – www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/alexander-vindman/the-folly-of-realism/9781541705043
Alexander Vindman’s Substack – www.avindman.com
Alexander Vindman on Bluesky - @avindman.bsky.social

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Thursday May 15, 2025

Stop Toxic Partisanship (Doing Our Part): Finding Humanity in Polarized Politics & Religion

Thursday May 15, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reflects on a pivotal shift in direction for the podcast. The solo episodes of “Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other” will be moving toward a more practical focus—answering the question of how we engage in tough conversations about politics and religion in more productive, neighborly, human ways. Drawing from years of interviews, personal experiences, and lively social media debates, Corey opens up about the challenges and tools needed to bridge our deepest divides.

What's Discussed:

Why Corey is focusing more on how we talk about politics and religion, not just what we talk about
The role of "epistemic bubbles" and "informational universes" in shaping our perspectives
Tools and strategies for engaging across political and religious differences
How grace, curiosity, and relationship-building can change the tone of even the toughest conversations
Real-life examples from Corey’s online and offline experiences—including some Facebook showdowns!

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] Corey announces a new focus on practical tools for civil dialogue
[00:06:00] The concept of “epistemic ecosystems” and how they isolate us
[00:10:00] Why you can’t “convert” someone in one conversation—but you can plant seeds
[00:13:00] Mike Madrid: “Effective communication across bubbles requires more than simply correcting facts...”
[00:17:00] A quote from the Constitution sparks a wild Facebook debate
[00:24:00] From “literate idiots” to neighbors with nuance—Corey breaks down who shows up online
[00:32:00] How to actively listen, lead with curiosity, and find the serious point in a noisy thread
[00:45:00] Tips on when to pick your spot, take it offline, or simply walk away

Featured Quotes:

“Sometimes you can’t teach someone a new language—but you can give them a few new words.”
“Give yourself grace. You’re going to mess it up. But keep showing up.”
“Effective communication across bubbles requires more than simply correcting facts. It demands engaging underlying values and concerns.”

Resources Mentioned:

Mike Madrid’s Substack - The Great Transformation: greattransformation.substack.com
Tangle News: www.readtangle.com
Ground News: ground.news
Village SquareCast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/village-squarecast/id1520059234

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Monday May 12, 2025

Serene Jones on Grace, Grit, and God: How Faith Can Heal a Fractured Democracy

Monday May 12, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan speaks with Rev. Dr. Serene Jones, President of Union Theological Seminary. As the first woman to lead the historic 180-year-old institution, Dr. Jones brings deep insight to the intersection of theology, justice, and public life. Together, they explore how Christian faith can guide us through trauma, division, and democracy’s challenges, while sharing stories of growing up in faith and creating space for conversations across political and religious divides.

What We Discuss:

How Serene Jones’ upbringing shaped her theological lens
What theology has to do with democracy and justice
Why questions are a sign of faith, not doubt
The importance of building bridges, even when no one’s building from the other side
How seminaries are evolving to meet the needs of a changing world

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:00] A unique faith upbringing in the Disciples of Christ tradition
[00:07:00] Church as a place of learning about democracy, justice, and real life
[00:13:00] The message of Micah 4 and how it resonates with global conflict today
[00:27:00] The role of theology in shaping public ethics and spiritual resilience
[00:39:00] Navigating campus dialogue during protests and unrest
[00:44:00] Three calls for progressive communities in red states
[00:51:00] Addressing collective and generational trauma through faith
[00:53:00] Asking: What would Jesus do—really?

Featured Quotes:

“Faith that’s not equipped to deal with the big questions of life is not a faith worth its weight.”
“If we are not building bridges, there’s no one there to catch people when they fall.”
“Theology is not just an abstraction. It’s an action. It’s a way of living in the world.”
“The crisis in our nation is a massive spiritual crisis—for all of us.”

Resources Mentioned:
Union Theological Seminary – utsnyc.edu
Call It Grace by Serene Jones – www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/2146640/serene-jones/

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Thursday May 08, 2025

From the Boardroom to Town Hall: Leading with Civility with Mayor Lisa Willey Knierim

Thursday May 08, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with Lisa Willey Knierim—Mayor of Cranbury Township, NJ, President of 1880 Hospitality, and high school pal. Lisa shares powerful insights into the realities of small-town governance, the impact of state housing mandates, and the ripple effects of national political discourse. From boardrooms to township meetings, she brings candor, civility, and a healthy dose of humor to the conversation.

What We Discuss:

How national political polarization affects small-town governments.
What the Mount Laurel Doctrine means for affordable housing in NJ.
The value of listening and transparency in political leadership.
How Six Sigma strategies works in business—and public service.
Real-world consequences of recent U.S. tariff policy from a global trade professional.

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:00] The structure of Cranbury’s local government and Lisa’s role as mayor
[00:07:00] Breaking down the affordable housing mandate and land challenges
[00:14:00] How partisan behavior has filtered into local meetings
[00:24:00] Six Sigma in practice: business problem-solving that works
[00:27:00] Why abrupt tariff policy changes hurt American businesses
[00:34:00] Lisa’s close election win and continued work with her predecessor
[00:45:00] Remembering the best of our communities post-pandemic
[00:53:00] Lisa’s campaign to bring back civility in politics

Featured Quotes:

“At the local level, I wish I didn’t even have to declare my party. It feels absolutely irrelevant.” – Lisa Willey Knierim

“You’ve got to create a vanilla ice cream environment—not too spicy. Be compassionate, be practical, be human.”

“National-level problems shouldn’t be light-switch decisions.”

“It’s not that I can’t solve the problem. But I can listen. That’s halfway there.”

Resources Mentioned:

Six Sigma Black Belt Certification: asq.org/cert/six-sigma-black-belt
Cranbury Township Info: www.cranburytownship.org/
Lisa Willey Knierim Campaign Page: www.facebook.com/LisaKnierimTC22

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Monday May 05, 2025

Beyond Outrage and Misperceptions: Building the Muscles for Democracy (with More In Common's Kate Carney)

Monday May 05, 2025

In this episode, Corey Nathan sits down with Kate Carney, Deputy Director at More in Common. Kate shares her fascinating journey—from working in Congress to boating 6,000 miles around the U.S.—and how those experiences shape her work today. The conversation centers on More in Common’s new report, The Connection Opportunity, and explores how we can foster meaningful relationships across political, racial, religious, and socioeconomic divides.

What's Discussed:

Why social connection is critical to healthy democracy.
Surprising data on Americans’ openness to diverse perspectives.
How psychological factors like intergroup anxiety impact connection.
Kate’s transformative journey completing the Great American Loop.
Real-world solutions for bridging divides in your own community.

Episode Highlights:

02:00 – Kate’s 6,000-mile boat journey and what it taught her about America.
10:00 – The Connection Opportunity: How More in Common is reframing social cohesion.
21:00 – Why politics remains the most difficult line of difference to cross.
25:00 – The power of community norms and intergroup anxiety.
32:00 – Revisiting the "Hidden Tribes" report and what’s changed since its release.
41:00 – The seven levers of change for increasing social connection.
48:00 – How cities like Kansas City, Houston and Pittsburgh are fostering community dialogue.
54:00 – Personal agency and why democracy starts with you.

Featured Quotes:
“We are inherently diverse. To build strong communities, we have to be intentional about connecting across our differences.” — Kate Carney
“The more people connect across difference, the more they want to—it’s a cascade.” — Kate Carney
“There’s an overwhelming desire to have these conversations. It’s the fortress of assumptions that gets in our way.” — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

More in Common: www.moreincommonus.com
The Connection Opportunity Report: moreincommonus.com/publication/the-connection-opportunity

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

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Friday May 02, 2025

Trump's Attack on Decency and Your Constitutional Rights: Why It's NOT Normal

Friday May 02, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reflects on where we stand as a country several months into the current administration. With candor and conviction, Corey explores the themes of democracy, decency, and due process. Drawing from scripture, the Constitution, and commentary by thought leaders like David Brooks and Mike Madrid, this episode delivers a compelling, timely snapshot of America’s civic health—and what’s at stake moving forward.

What's Discussed:

Why the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments are more important than ever
The consequences of immigration policies that bypass due process
How the economy (including tariffs and inflation) is impacting voters
What swayed key constituencies in the 2024 election
What to watch for heading into 2026 and 2028

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] Framing the episode: A “temperature check” on America
[00:05:00] The First Amendment under threat
[00:07:00] Due process and the constitutional rights of all persons
[00:14:00] What really moved voters in 2024 (spoiler: price of eggs + immigration)
[00:17:00] A powerful quote from David Brooks on civilizational foundations
[00:22:00] Legal attacks and a defense of constitutional law
[00:29:00] Polling data showing shifts in public opinion
[00:34:00] Real-world impact on families, students, and small businesses

Featured Quotes:

“Nor shall any person be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.”
“Don’t talk to me about Donald Trump being a brilliant businessman—he’s a brilliant thief.”
“For me, it’s about democracy and decency. Always has been.”

Resources Mentioned:

David Brooks: "What’s Happening Is Not Normal" (NYT) – www.nytimes.com/2025/04/17/opinion/trump-harvard-law-firms.html
Adam Unikowsky on Substack – adamunikowsky.substack.com/p/the-case-for-suing
Mike Madrid's Substack, The Great Transformation – substack.com/@madridmike

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

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Monday Apr 28, 2025

E.J. Dionne: "Come, Let Us Reason Together" | Resisting Extremism and the Path to National Healing

Monday Apr 28, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan talks with renowned journalist, scholar, and public intellectual E.J. Dionne Jr. E.J. is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a syndicated columnist for The Washington Post, a professor at Georgetown University, and a prolific author. Together, they discuss democracy, faith, political polarization, and the enduring need for real argument and hope in public life.

What We Discuss:

How E.J.’s upbringing shaped his approach to political debate and dialogue.
Why engaging seriously with opposing ideas is crucial to democracy.
The difference between optimism and hope — and why hope is essential.
How faith and civil society contribute to repairing societal divisions.

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:00] E.J. shares how his father encouraged open political debate.
[00:06:00] Reflections on DEI, the “woke” debates, and critiques of excesses.
[00:10:00] The Trump administration’s unintended role in uniting pro-democracy groups.
[00:15:00] Anger and economic grievances in Fall River, Massachusetts.
[00:24:00] Why hope, not just optimism, is vital for public life.
[00:36:00] E.J.’s personal faith journey and the importance of humble belief.
[00:48:00] Reflections on Pope Francis’ legacy and the Catholic Church.
[01:05:00] What worries E.J. about democracy today — and what gives him hope.

Featured Quotes:
"In real argument, you enter imaginatively into the ideas your opponent holds." — E.J. Dionne
"Hope is the virtue on which faith and love depend." — E.J. Dionne
"You can really disagree with people you love, and you can love people you disagree with." — E.J. Dionne
"We find sanctity even in mundane conversations." — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

📘 Souled Out: Reclaiming Faith and Politics after the Religious Right - Princeton University Press

📰 E.J. Dionne's column at The Washington Post – www.washingtonpost.com/people/ej-dionne-jr

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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@coreysnathan:

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Thursday Apr 24, 2025

The Unflinching Eye: McKay Coppins on Journalism, the Threats to Our Freedoms and the Power of Inquiry

Thursday Apr 24, 2025

🎙️Award-winning journalist and Atlantic staff writer McKay Coppins joins us to explore the delicate intersections of politics, faith, and journalism. From shadowing Donald Trump to chronicling the political journey of Mitt Romney, McKay shares what it takes to pursue truth in turbulent times.

What We Discuss:

What it’s like getting rare access to Trump, Romney, and the Murdochs
How to navigate political rationalizations without losing your soul
McKay’s writing rituals and creative process
The powerful role of curiosity in building bridges across divides
Why faith and civic life matter more than ever

Episode Highlights:

00:02:00 – McKay’s infamous 2014 Trump profile and its surprising legacy
00:10:00 – How luck and sincere curiosity lead to exclusive access
00:16:00 – Late nights, caps lock, and McKay’s writing habits
00:29:00 – The chilling effect of political intimidation on journalism
00:41:00 – Why many GOP leaders stay silent—and what Romney heard behind the scenes
00:50:00 – Do you lose your soul in politics? A deep dive
00:57:00 – The spiritual vacuum in modern America and how faith might fill it
01:02:00 – Why curiosity is the cure for today’s civic divide

Featured Quotes:

"He seemed like he desperately wanted affirmation all the time... and it was like empty calories."
"To be somebody who has faith is to constantly have it tested and to have it evolve."
"We need leaders thinking more about their obituaries than the next news cycle."
"Curiosity is an underrated virtue in politics."

Resources Mentioned:

📘 Romney: A Reckoning – Simon and Schuster
📘 The Wilderness – Hachette Book Group
📰 McKay’s articles at The Atlantic – Visit

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Monday Apr 21, 2025

I Was Right About the Law, But My Delivery Was WRONG: How to Discuss Threats to Our Rights Without Being a Jerk

Monday Apr 21, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan shares a candid reflection about a recent encounter where he was right on the facts and the law—but completely wrong in how he presented them. Yet if we're honest with ourselves about when we make mistakes, it's a good opportunity to learn, reminding us that how we communicate is just as important as what we communicate.

What You’ll Learn:

Why being right on the law isn’t enough in a conversation
How righteous anger can derail productive dialogue
Why due process matters for everyone—especially those who aren't guilty of crimes
Tools for engaging in hard conversations with empathy and curiosity
How the Constitution and Judeo-Christian values intersect in public discourse

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] Corey introduces the story and the key lesson he learned
[00:05:00] Breakdown of the Alien Enemies Act and a real legal case
[00:06:45] A stranger challenges Corey at a restaurant
[00:07:30] Corey "goes Jersey" and loses his cool
[00:13:00] What due process really protects and why it matters
[00:16:00] How Isaac Saul, David Brooks, and Mónica Guzmán inspired a better way to respond
[00:18:00] Reading the First and Fifth Amendments to ground the conversation

Featured Quotes:

"I was completely right on the facts, but I was completely wrong on the delivery." — Corey Nathan
"Due process is there for the innocent just as much as the guilty—even more so for the innocent." — Corey Nathan
"Ask at least three questions before making your point." — inspired by Isaac Saul

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Thursday Apr 17, 2025

Untangling the Partisan Knot: A Balanced Look at Political News with Isaac Saul of Tangle

Thursday Apr 17, 2025

In this episode, we sit down with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, a widely respected, nonpartisan political newsletter. Isaac and his team bring a fresh approach to political journalism by curating multiple perspectives—right, left, and independent—on major stories of the day. Corey, a fan and avid reader of Tangle, dives deep into Isaac’s upbringing in Bucks County, PA, how that shaped his civic “multilingualism,” and the genesis of Tangle during a particularly difficult phase of his career. Together, they explore the challenges of journalistic ethics, political polarization, media bias, and the future of trustworthy news.

What We Discuss:

Why Bucks County, PA, is so friggin' awesome! And why it plays a crucial role in shaping moderate political thinkers.
How Isaac Saul built Tangle from the ground up as a response to media frustration.
The journalistic principles and ethical guardrails that guide Isaac’s work.
How to discern quality journalism in an era dominated by clickbait and misinformation.
The dangers of polarization and what gives Isaac hope about our democratic future.

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Isaac Saul shares the mission behind Tangle and what inspired him to create it.
[00:05:00] Corey and Isaac explore how growing up in politically diverse Bucks County cultivated empathy and civic fluency.
[00:10:00] Isaac discusses his unique way of reaching conspiracy-minded friends—by “using their language” and exposing financial incentives in media.
[00:15:00] Isaac describes his journalistic background and the importance of reporting with integrity and skepticism.
[00:24:00] Isaac recounts his “f*** this” moment that led to launching Tangle after being rejected from multiple major outlets.
[00:34:00] Corey explains his methodical approach to reading Tangle and how it helps refine his own viewpoints.
[00:40:00] Behind the scenes: How Isaac and his team choose stories and fairly represent both sides of complex political issues.
[00:54:00] Isaac shares his hopes and fears about political division, executive overreach, and the role of media in democracy.

Featured Quotes:

"The people who are really politically engaged on the right and the left right now are living in just different realities." – Isaac Saul
"I know what I think. It’s the least interesting thing on the planet. I live with this brain all day. I want to hear what others think." – Isaac Saul
"You should treat every click like you're handing a news outlet a dollar." – Isaac Saul
"Centrism is an ideology in and of itself. I’m not trying to land in the middle—I’m just being honest about my real reactions." – Isaac Saul

Resources Mentioned:

Tangle Newsletter – www.readtangle.com
Isaac Saul’s TED Talk: “What Media Doesn’t Tell You” – youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=CjdQv94HzT04vknh
How Media Bias Works (Tangle article) – www.readtangle.com/why-the-media-is-broken/
Isaac on Twitter: x.com/Ike_Saul

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

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Monday Apr 14, 2025

(ICYMI) Beyond Right and Left: Rabbi Sharon Brous and the Courage to Ask 'What Do You See?' After October 7th

Monday Apr 14, 2025

In this deeply moving episode, Corey Nathan welcomes Rabbi Sharon Brous, the senior and founding rabbi of IKAR, a groundbreaking Jewish community based in Los Angeles. Rabbi Brous is also the author of The Amen Effect: Ancient Wisdom to Heal Our Hearts and Mend Our Broken World. Together, they explore ancient traditions, mental health, spiritual leadership, and how to foster deeper, more compassionate human connections even across profound divides.

What We Discuss:

The ancient ritual of turning toward the brokenhearted and its modern relevance.
The profound impact of being seen and embraced in moments of vulnerability.
How leaders carry and process communal pain—and why that matters.
Practical wisdom on staying curious and compassionate across ideological divides.
The role of community design in spiritual experiences.

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Rabbi Brous explains the Mishnah Middot and the ritual of turning toward the brokenhearted.
[00:08:00] Corey and Rabbi Brous discuss the concept of sin as a burden like mental illness.
[00:15:00] The transformative power of being truly seen and how crying makes space for new realities.
[00:20:00] Rabbi Brous reflects on the toll leadership can take and how caregivers must process pain.
[00:24:00] The design of IKAR’s prayer space and how it fosters visibility and community.
[00:34:00] Navigating discomfort with changes in religious leadership and traditions.
[00:42:00] How to stay at the table with those who hurt or anger us—and why it’s critical.
[00:53:00] A powerful story about transformation through simple presence and blessing.

Featured Quotes:

"Sometimes you don’t even want to get out of bed. Yet, sacred tradition compels us to show our brokenness—and trust that we will be held with love." — Rabbi Sharon Brous
"If you don’t metabolize pain, it will metastasize inside of you." — Rabbi Sharon Brous
"We can create new neural and spiritual pathways—by allowing ourselves to be seen and to receive love." — Rabbi Sharon Brous
"It takes courage to be curious about someone who hurt you, but that’s the only way to heal." — Rabbi Sharon Brous

Resources Mentioned:

The Amen Effect by Rabbi Sharon Brous: https://ikar.org/the-amen-effect/the-big-idea/
IKAR Jewish Community: https://www.ikar.org/
How to Know a Person by David Brooks: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/652822/how-to-know-a-person-by-david-brooks/
Fierce Love by Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis: https://jacquijlewis.com/fierce-love/
I Never Thought of It That Way by Mónica Guzmán: https://www.moniguzman.com/book

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Friday Apr 11, 2025

From Bible School to 'Trump Grumpies': Gen Z Asks, What Would Jesus Really Do? with Emerson Riley Nathan

Friday Apr 11, 2025

In this heartfelt and wide-ranging episode, host Corey Nathan sits down with a very special guest — his own son, Emerson Riley Nathan. Together, they dive into Gen Z’s unique perspective on faith, politics, and culture. As a young adult navigating the complexities of belief, identity, and creativity, Emerson offers refreshing candor about his spiritual journey, social views, and passion for music. This conversation is an inspiring look at how different generations can engage in meaningful, respectful dialogue.

What You Will Learn:

Insights into Gen Z's evolving relationship with faith and spirituality
How Emerson balances skepticism and open-mindedness about religion
The impact of politics and social media on young people's worldview
How music and community-building are vital for mental health and connection
The dynamic of a father and son having open, vulnerable discussions about big life questions

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] – Emerson's "graveyard shift" lifestyle and its impact on his creativity
[00:03:00] – Emerson shares his journey growing up between Christianity and Judaism
[00:07:00] – How the 2012 election and political polarization shaped Emerson’s views
[00:11:00] – Moving away from organized religion and questioning traditional beliefs
[00:20:00] – Emerson's current agnostic beliefs and embracing uncertainty about the afterlife
[00:27:00] – The healing power of kindness and defining what it means to be good
[00:32:00] – Emerson’s passion for dubstep, rave culture, and community through music
[00:45:00] – Corey and Emerson discuss responsible adulthood, fatherhood, and finding purpose
[00:59:00] – How politics today have created both division and a sense of helplessness

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

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Monday Apr 07, 2025

Will Saletan: Navigating Toxic Partisanship and Challenging Extremist Absurdity

Monday Apr 07, 2025

In this episode, we welcome back political journalist and author Will Saletan. Will, formerly of Slate and now a writer for The Bulwark, is known for his sharp insights on American democracy, political corruption, and authoritarianism. Will reflects on the pivotal events leading up to and following the 2024 election, including Joe Biden’s withdrawal, Kamala Harris’s campaign, and Donald Trump's return to power. This thought-provoking conversation dives into the state of democracy, the rise of authoritarianism, and how ordinary Americans are responding.

What You Will Learn

How Will Saletan processed the chaotic political landscape leading up to the 2024 election.
Why many Americans seem indifferent to threats against constitutional rights.
Will’s analysis of Trump’s authoritarian tendencies and the implications for democracy.
The emerging role of European allies as America’s commitment to NATO and democracy weakens.
Practical strategies for handling misinformation and toxic discourse on social media.

Episode Highlights

[00:01:00] Introduction to Will Saletan and a reflection on major events since their last conversation.
[00:03:00] Will discusses his surprise at Biden’s physical and verbal deterioration during the 2024 campaign.
[00:07:00] The challenges Kamala Harris faced stepping into the race and why the "change election" dynamic mattered.
[00:11:00] Corey and Will examine why many Americans rationalized or minimized January 6th.
[00:23:00] Will explains how fear and profit motive lead companies and law firms to capitulate to authoritarian pressures.
[00:29:00] How self-censorship and fear of government retribution are stifling free speech.
[00:54:00] Will shares the "general idea" he’s concluded about the Trump administration: incompetence and stupidity at historic levels.
[01:03:00] Hope on the horizon: how European nations are stepping up to defend democratic values.
[01:06:00] Final reflections on the resilience of democracy beyond America’s current political struggles.

Featured Quotes

Will Saletan: "What clicks for me is very simple: they’re idiots. They're really stupid, and they think they're smart."
Will Saletan: "The danger isn’t just the lies themselves—it's the machinery of intimidation that stops people from even trying to tell the truth."
Corey Nathan: "It's encouraging when you realize people are so much more than the hat they might wear."
Will Saletan: "Even though America has faltered, there’s still goodness in the world—and it’s stepping up."

Resources Mentioned

Will Saletan at The Bulwark
Will's book: The Corruption of Lindsey Graham: A Case Study in The Rise of Authoritarianism
Will on Bluesky - @saletan.bsky.social

(Note: If Will referenced any other external resources or books you want linked specifically, just let me know!)

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

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Friday Apr 04, 2025

Dumb Ideas Welcome? Navigating Free Speech and Falsehoods in a Divided Democracy

Friday Apr 04, 2025

In this solo episode, host Corey Nathan takes a deep dive into one of the foundational guidelines we've used in curating conversations both in person and online: handling misinformation. Corey reflects on his experiences moderating political and religious discussions, the evolution of social media moderation, and the fine balance between protecting free speech and maintaining civil discourse. We invite listeners into an honest exploration of free expression, civic engagement, and fostering better conversations, even with those we deeply disagree with.

What We Discuss:

Why it could be worth rethinking the rule to report and remove proven falsehoods from these forums.
The importance of understanding the First Amendment and time, place, and manner restrictions on free speech.
How maintaining civil discourse matters more than ever, even with the spread of misinformation.
Reflections on the lessons learned from controversial public conversations, like Gavin Newsom’s podcast guests and protests on college campuses.
How personal experiences during the pandemic and political unrest shaped Corey's approach to moderating tough conversations.

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:00] Corey’s initial set of rules for moderating conversations on social media.
[00:08:00] Why platforms like Meta and Twitter are no longer actively flagging misinformation.
[00:10:00] Revisiting the meaning of the First Amendment and its application to private forums.
[00:18:00] Discussing time, place, and manner restrictions in the context of campus protests and public demonstrations.
[00:23:00] Reflecting on the events of January 6th and the perpetuation of election fraud narratives.
[00:36:00] Learning from Gavin Newsom’s engagement with controversial figures like Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk.
[00:43:00] Why civil engagement—even with those we strongly disagree with—might be more powerful than silencing falsehoods.
[00:52:00] Corey’s updated stance: allowing proven falsehoods to remain visible for educational and relational purposes.

Featured Quotes:

"Congress shall make no law... but that doesn’t mean I, a private individual, can’t curate conversations in my own forums."

"When we disagree is when it’s most important to protect free speech."

"Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Let the worst ideas stand up to scrutiny."

"Staying in relationship with those we disagree with gives us a better chance to understand and grow."

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
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Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Wednesday Apr 02, 2025

(Best of) David Brooks, HOW TO KNOW A PERSON: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen

Wednesday Apr 02, 2025

This conversation with David Brooks was a real highlight. We originally recorded our talk just after his most recent book HOW TO KNOW A PERSON was released. Enjoy.

You might recognize David Brooks from his columns in The New York Times or his essays in The Atlantic. Perhaps you’ve seen him on PBS NewsHour or Meet the Press. He’s also a prolific author. In fact, his 2019 book The Second Mountain was a major inspiration for this program. We discuss that as well as David’s new book, How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen (Penguin Random House).

Our conversation with "Brooksie" went in a number of surprising directions:

Sociological observations (and confessions) of New York Mets fans;
The way lifelong friends enrich our lives;
Depression - fair warning that this section gets pretty gritty and candid;
How, as observant Jews, we both discovered Christianity later in life;
As Jews who are Christian, whether we have any ambivalence;
American Evangelicalism - talk about ambivalence!
David's writing process and the motivation of deadlines;
and much, much more!

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

David's new book HOW TO KNOW A PERSON:

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/652822/how-to-know-a-person-by-david-brooks

Sunday Mar 30, 2025

Mónica Guzmán: Breaking the Cycle of Outrage Through Fearlessly Curious Conversations

Sunday Mar 30, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes back Monica Guzmán, Senior Fellow for Public Practice at Braver Angels, host of A Braver Way podcast, CEO of Reclaim Curiosity, and author of I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times. Monica’s mission is to help bridge America’s political divides through fearless curiosity. With deep reflections on the 2024 election, evolving friendships across ideological lines, and her renewed commitment to bridge building, Monica shares how we can stay grounded and connected—especially when it feels impossible.

What We Discuss:

How Moni processes political polarization and stays grounded—even when the world feels divided
Practical strategies for engaging with people across ideological lines without compromising your values
Why shared outrage across political lines can be a gateway to unity
The role of empathy, humility, and curiosity in depolarizing conversations
How journalists and moderators can better navigate falsehoods without censoring legitimate concerns

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:00] – Mónica explains how her emotional radar helps her know when to seek out conversations with people who see politics differently.
[00:08:00] – Unexpected agreement: conservatives and liberals are both frustrated with Congressional dysfunction and executive overreach.
[00:14:00] – Moni shares how talking with people who had different experiences during COVID reshaped her understanding and empathy.
[00:21:00] – Corey and Mónica discuss boundaries in bridge building—when is it time to walk away from a relationship?
[00:29:00] – Moderating contentious conversations: “police the structure, not the content.”
[00:36:00] – The relationship between activism and dialogue—and why one without the other can be reckless or ineffective.
[00:46:00] – Tips for recognizing quality journalism and avoiding emotionally manipulative content.
[00:56:00] – Mónica’s closing advice: engagement is not endorsement. Curiosity and conversation don’t mean you’re compromising your values.

Featured Quotes:

“I’ve been persuaded over and over again that positions against mine are not ludicrous.” – Mónica Guzmán

“Engagement is not endorsement. Having a conversation doesn’t mean you’re capitulating.” – Mónica Guzmán

“Find your edge—and push it. That’s all you need to do to build a bridge.” – Mónica Guzmán

“I don't want a decision or a position to get in the way of our relationship. I want to understand it better.” – Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

I Never Thought of It That Way by Monica Guzmán - moniguzman.com/book
Braver Angels - braverangels.org

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Saturday Mar 29, 2025

ICYMI: 7 Tools for Engaging With "Them"

Saturday Mar 29, 2025

Can we bridge the partisan divide and have constructive dialogue about politics and religion with "them" - people who have different beliefs about democracy, politics and religion? Are we able to simply have civil, civic conversations?

(We're grateful to have a number of new listeners. So we thought it'd be good to revisit this episode that was first aired just after the inauguration.)

In this edition, host Corey Nathan explores how we can have meaningful, respectful, and productive conversations with those who think differently from us—politically, religiously, and ideologically. After four years of hosting the show and speaking with a wide array of guests, Corey shares his own insights, offering seven practical tools (plus a bonus tip) for engaging with “one of them” in a way that fosters connection rather than division.

What Is Discussed

How to give yourself and others grace in difficult conversations
The importance of setting proper expectations when discussing sensitive topics
Why asking the right questions is more powerful than having the perfect comeback
How storytelling can humanize those with whom we disagree
The value of being open to the phrase "I never thought of it that way"
How to recognize when it’s time to step away from a conversation or to love someone "from a safe distance"
Resources and organizations that can help you navigate difficult discussions

Episode Highlights

⏳ [00:02:00] – Reviews from listeners: the good, the bad, and the constructive
⏳ [00:05:00] – The purpose of this episode: sharing tools for engaging with "one of them"
⏳ [00:06:00] – Tool #1: Grace – Accepting that we will all make mistakes in these conversations
⏳ [00:09:00] – Tool #2: Proper Expectations – Why we shouldn't expect to change someone's mind 180 degrees
⏳ [00:12:00] – Tool #3: Asking Questions – Learning from Jesus' approach of responding with questions
⏳ [00:20:00] – Tool #4: Storytelling – The power of narrative in understanding each other as human beings
⏳ [00:25:00] – Tool #5: Being Open to "I Never Thought of It That Way" Moments
⏳ [00:32:00] – Tool #6: Recognizing Your Line – Knowing when to step away from an unhealthy dynamic
⏳ [00:35:00] – Tool #7: Equipping Yourself – Books, organizations, and resources for learning how to engage better
⏳ [00:38:00] – Bonus Tip: Taking Care of Yourself – Mental, emotional, and physical well-being in this work

Featured Quotes

📢 “Give yourself grace. You’re not going to get it right every time.”
📢 “If we ask the right question, it allows that person, instead of being in a posture of combat, to tell their story.”
📢 “Trying to inform, like trying to win, can get in the way of trying to listen.” – Monica Guzmán (as quoted in the episode)
📢 “People are mysteries, not puzzles.” – Monica Guzmán

Resources Mentioned

📖 Books:

I Never Thought of It That Way – by Mónica Guzmán
How to Know a Person – by David Brooks

🌍 Organizations:

The Village Square – Encouraging healthy civic discourse
Braver Angels – Bridging political divides through dialogue

🎥 Watch & Support the Podcast:

YouTube Channel – Subscribe for video content
Patreon – Support the show

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

🔹 Now go talk some politics and religion—but with gentleness and respect. 💡

#Politics #Religion #NeverTrump #Democracy #Faith #Justice #Civility #Polarization

Thursday Mar 27, 2025

A Frank Discussion on American Politics with an "Untethered Expat" Originally from Bucks County PA

Thursday Mar 27, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with his longtime friend Gary Keifer, an expat currently living in Peru. Gary brings a refreshingly honest and “untethered” perspective to U.S. politics, unfiltered by party loyalty or institutional affiliation. With a background in comedy, improv, and theater, Gary offers thoughtful insights rooted in personal experience and global observations. The conversation spans topics from immigration and working-class politics to why Gary abstained from discussing American politics for years—until now. Together, Corey and Gary exemplify what it means to engage in civil discourse across ideological lines.

What We Discuss:

Why Gary calls himself an "untethered expat" and what that means for his political views.
How the Clinton-era Democratic strategy toward the working class contributed to the rise of Trump.
Why immigration is the central issue Gary believes needs urgent resolution—and how both parties have failed on it.
The limitations of elite political commentary and the value of everyday perspectives.
Why Trump’s populism appeals to working-class voters despite his billionaire status.
The potential dangers of overreaching political mandates and ignoring opposing voices.

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] – Corey introduces Gary, a longtime friend with a unique expat perspective on U.S. politics.
[00:04:30] – Gary explains his belief in choosing “common people” over public figures for meaningful conversations.
[00:08:00] – Why Gary broke his two-year vow of not discussing U.S. politics.
[00:10:30] – How Bill Clinton’s shift away from labor shaped modern political realignment.
[00:16:00] – A comedic (and thought-provoking) take on Trump’s origin story and Steve Bannon’s influence.
[00:30:00] – Gary criticizes both parties for exploiting immigration and creating a caste system.
[00:34:00] – Corey and Gary analyze Biden’s early decisions and whether reversing Trump-era immigration policies was a political mistake.
[00:45:00] – The bipartisan immigration deal Trump blocked—and what it reveals about political strategy.
[01:00:00] – Gary pleads: “Just give Trump the win on immigration so we can move on.”

Featured Quotes:

“Fascism doesn't just appear out of nowhere. It fills a void left by something else.” – Gary Keifer

“You can’t skip Chapter One of fascism—how we got here matters.” – Gary Keifer

“Compromise is the substrate of democracy.” – Corey Nathan

“At the end of the day, we're just regular guys trying to have conversations most people are avoiding.” – Corey Nathan

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Sunday Mar 23, 2025

Speaking Truth to Power (and to the Pews): Peter Wehner on the Evangelical Vote and America's Future

Sunday Mar 23, 2025

In this conversation, host Corey Nathan welcomes back Peter Wehner, contributing writer at The Atlantic and The New York Times, senior fellow at the Trinity Forum, and author of multiple books including The Death of Politics and City of Man. A former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Pete brings a unique perspective shaped by his deep political experience, Christian faith, and unwavering moral compass. Together, Corey and Pete engage in a wide-ranging conversation on the 2024 election, the moral health of our nation, the role of the church, and the constitutional implications of a second Trump presidency.

What We Discuss:

How Pete Wehner processed the pivotal moments of the 2024 election, including Biden’s withdrawal and Kamala Harris’s campaign
Why Donald Trump’s reelection reveals unsettling truths about American society and the church
How constitutional crises might unfold under Trump’s second term
Why thinkers like Vaclav Havel, Solzhenitsyn, and Tocqueville are essential guides in this political moment
How to have more effective and empathetic conversations across political and religious divides

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] – Introduction to Pete Wehner’s background and career
[00:02:00] – Pete reflects on Biden’s debate performance and why he felt Biden should have withdrawn sooner
[00:05:00] – Analysis of Kamala Harris’s campaign, debate performance, and what ultimately cost her the election
[00:09:00] – The moral reckoning: what Trump’s reelection says about American voters and the church
[00:14:00] – Pete dissects why evangelicals have remained loyal to Trump and how rationalizations took hold
[00:27:00] – A 30-page email exchange: Pete’s attempt to reason with a high-profile Trump supporter and what it revealed
[00:34:00] – Trump’s “appetite for revenge”: Pete outlines troubling actions already taken in just 60 days of Trump’s second term
[00:41:00] – Defining a constitutional crisis and what happens when a president defies court rulings
[00:46:00] – Finding hope and moral clarity through leaders like Havel, Solzhenitsyn, and Tocqueville
[00:50:00] – The TP&R question: Pete's insights on how to build better conversations across our differences

Featured Quotes:

“Donald Trump is president because of the white evangelical vote. He touched something deep in the hearts of many Christians—and that should trouble us.” – Peter Wehner

“Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well; it’s the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out.” – Vaclav Havel (quoted by Pete)

“We're moving toward a constitutional crisis... If Trump defies a court order, we may find out how many divisions Chief Justice John Roberts really has.” – Peter Wehner

“We have to prioritize human relationships. The ripple effects for the country can be healthy.” – Peter Wehner

Resources Mentioned:

Peter Wehner’s articles in The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/peter-wehner/
Peter Wehner’s columns in The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/column/peter-wehner
“The Power of the Powerless” by Vaclav Havel: https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/resource/the-power-of-the-powerless/
The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: https://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investigation/dp/0061253804
Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/815/815-h/815-h.htm

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

Thursday Mar 20, 2025

Beyond Arguments: Setting Boundaries and Clearing the Brush for Civil Political and Religious Conversations

Thursday Mar 20, 2025

In this episode, we explore some essential tools for navigating difficult conversations in today’s polarized world. After all, we are part of The Democracy Group! And our goal with TDG and this program is to foster respectful, insightful discussions on politics, religion, and other sensitive topics—without resorting to hostility.

In this solo episode, Corey shares practical strategies for setting boundaries, "clearing the brush" (i.e. assumptions), and focusing on meaningful conversations rather than debates.

📌 What We Discuss:

✅ Why having clear boundaries is crucial for productive dialogue
✅ How to recognize and avoid being drawn into unproductive interrogations
✅ The importance of "clearing the brush" (i.e. assumptions) and engaging in genuine conversations
✅ Why listening and storytelling are more powerful than debating facts
✅ How building relationships—not just “winning” arguments—creates lasting change

⏳ Episode Highlights:

🕒 [00:00:00] – Welcome & Calls to Action: Corey shares updates on YouTube, podcast subscriptions, and Patreon.
🕒 [00:06:00] – The Big Question: How do we engage in tough conversations without falling into arguments?
🕒 [00:07:00] – Setting Boundaries: Recognizing when a conversation is an interrogation vs. a genuine exchange.
🕒 [00:10:00] – Admitting Limitations: The power of saying, "I’m not an expert."
🕒 [00:14:00] – No Need to Defend What You Don’t Believe: Why you don’t have to argue every point.
🕒 [00:21:00] – Clearing the Brush: Breaking down stereotypes and assumptions before real discussions can begin.
🕒 [00:26:00] – Seeking Conversations, Not Contests: The difference between dialogue and debate.
🕒 [00:32:00] – The Daryl Davis Approach: How listening has led KKK members to renounce their beliefs.
🕒 [00:35:00] – Final Thoughts: Tools for better discussions and how to support the podcast.

💬 Featured Quotes:

🗣️ “There is no need to submit to an interrogation. If you want to have a conversation, let’s have a conversation.” – Corey Nathan

🗣️ “I don’t have to defend a position that I don’t hold.” – Corey Nathan

🗣️ “The road to solving a lot of what ails us is not in winning debates—it’s in having healthier conversations.” – Corey Nathan

🗣️ “Conversations lead to relationships, and relationships lead to epiphanies.” – Corey Nathan

📚 Resources Mentioned:

🔗 Daryl Davis – Watch his TED Talk
🔗 Braver Angels – Building Bridges Across Political Divides

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

🔥 Final Thought:
Go out and have better conversations. Set boundaries, clear the brush, and seek dialogue—not debates. See you next time on Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other! 🎙️

Sunday Mar 16, 2025

Charlie Sykes - From Reagan Republicans to RFK Jr.: How the Right Lost Its Mind (Again)

Sunday Mar 16, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan sits down with Charlie Sykes, a prominent conservative commentator, former talk radio host, and founder of The Bulwark, who's currently writing and podcasting on his excellent Substack To the Contrary. Known for his sharp political insights and willingness to challenge the current trajectory of the Republican Party, Charlie discusses the erosion of democratic norms, the transformation of conservatism, and what the future holds for both parties.

📌 What We Discuss

How the Republican Party shifted from traditional conservatism to a Trump-dominated movement.
Why democracy faces real threats in the U.S. and globally.
The importance of character in political leadership and why many conservatives abandoned this principle.
Whether a pro-democracy coalition can hold back extremism in both parties.
Charlie's thoughts on how we can have better political conversations without dehumanizing each other.

⏳ Episode Highlights

🔹 [00:01:00] Charlie’s Journey: From influential conservative talk radio host to political outcast in the Trump era.
🔹 [00:05:00] The Evolution of Trumpism: Why Trump 2.0 is even more dangerous than his first presidency.
🔹 [00:12:00] Engaging With Trump Supporters: Is it possible to change minds, or should we focus on mobilizing pro-democracy voters?
🔹 [00:22:00] The Republican Party’s Transformation: How the far-right fringe became the mainstream.
🔹 [00:35:00] Can Democrats Avoid the Same Mistakes? Learning from the GOP's takeover by extremists.
🔹 [00:47:00] America’s Role in the World: Why the U.S. is no longer seen as the leader of the free world.
🔹 [01:02:00] Building Bridges Across Differences: The importance of assuming goodwill and finding shared values.

💬 Featured Quotes

"I’d rather be right than Marco Rubio right now." – Charlie Sykes
"The Republican Party had multiple off-ramps to reject Trumpism, and they took none of them." – Charlie Sykes
"We are living through history, and we don’t have the luxury of indifference." – Charlie Sykes
"The challenge isn’t just about talking politics—it’s about figuring out how to get through this without killing each other." – Corey Nathan

📚 Resources Mentioned

Charlie Sykes’ Substack Newsletter: To the Contrary
Charlie’s 2018 book: How the Right Lost Its Mind
The Identity Trap by Yascha Mounk

📣 Call to Action

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect With Us on Social Media

@coreysnathan:

Our Sponsors

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
Prolux Autogroup: www.proluxautogroup.com or www.granadahillsairporttransportation.com

Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡