Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other
 

Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

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Politics and Religion. We’re not supposed to talk about that, right? Wrong! We only say that nowadays because the loudest, most extreme voices have taken over the whole conversation. Well, we‘re taking some of that space back! If you’re dying for some dialogue instead of all the yelling; if you know it’s okay to have differences without having to hate each other; if you believe politics and religion are too important to let ”the screamers” drown out the rest of us and would love some engaging, provocative and fun conversations about this stuff, then ”Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other” is for you!

Episodes

🎙️ Back to Basics: When to Engage, When to Walk Away

13 hours ago

13 hours ago

A candid reflection on staying grounded while engaging in contentious conversations—and when to take a step back.

✨ Episode Summary

In this heartfelt solo talk, host Corey Nathan goes back to the fundamentals of Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other. Reflecting on recent emotionally charged interactions—some painfully personal—Corey revisits five foundational principles that guide his conversations and this podcast’s mission.

He opens up about the emotional toll of receiving attacks from opposing sides of the political and religious spectrum and how even with years of practice, the work of engaging respectfully remains challenging and ongoing.

Here are the five essentials Corey leans into when the temperature rises:

👉 Practice what you preach
👉 Contest or conversation? Know the difference.
👉 Articulate others’ views well.
👉 Sometimes, take it offline.
👉 Know when to walk away.

This isn’t just theory—it’s a personal reckoning, with honesty, humility, and yes, some humor too. 

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

⏱️ Timestamps & Topics

  • [00:00:00] 🎧 Intro: Hockey talk, Rangers vs. Kings, and a shout-out to The Democracy Group

  • [00:02:00] Recent conversations that challenged Corey’s peace and patience

  • [00:03:00] On being attacked by voices from both extremes of the Israel-Gaza conflict

  • [00:06:00] Recognizing how giving space to others can draw heat—sometimes from all sides

  • [00:07:30] The emotional cost of staying in these conversations

  • [00:08:00] Going “Back to Basics”: Five principles to guide tough discussions

  • [00:09:00] #1: Practice what you preach—even when it’s hard

  • [00:10:00] #2: Contest or conversation? Choose wisely.

  • [00:12:00] #3: Articulate others’ views honestly, even when you disagree

  • [00:14:00] #4: Sometimes take it offline to preserve dignity and connection

  • [00:17:00] #5: Know when to walk away—because not everyone deserves your time

  • [00:20:00] Closing: Still learning, still growing, still hoping for peace

🧠 Key Takeaways

  • See Other's Humanity: Engage with people as individuals, not as representatives of an ideology.

  • Not Every Fight is Worth Fighting: Sometimes, disengagement is a form of self-care and wisdom.

  • Curiosity Builds Bridges: Ask real questions. Seek understanding, not just rebuttals.

  • There’s Power in Saying “No More”: Knowing your limits is an act of strength, not weakness.

  • The Work is Ongoing: This isn’t about perfection—it’s about commitment to grow and do better.

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Read more

Justin Giboney on the Black Church, Civic Courage, and Healing Our Divides

4 days ago

4 days ago

Exploring how Christian conviction and civic love — inspired by the faith of Willie Faye and Mahalia Jackson’s generation — can transcend political tribalism.

🔥 Episode Summary

Grateful to welcome Justin Giboney, an ordained minister, attorney, and co-founder of the AND Campaign. Justin shares his faith journey, the genesis of the AND Campaign, and his new book, Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church’s Public Witness Leads Us Out of the Culture War. Together, we explore how faith can ground political engagement, challenge tribalism, and offer a better way forward rooted in compassion, conviction, and moral imagination.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

⏱️ Timestamps & Key Topics

  • [00:00:00] Intro to the show and our guest Justin E. Giboney

  • [00:01:00] Justin’s background: faith, family, football, and public life

  • [00:03:00] Raising three boys in Georgia and coaching youth football 🏈

  • [00:04:00] Justin’s college years at Vanderbilt and struggles with faith

  • [00:06:00] Returning to faith and the influence of family, especially Willie Faye

  • [00:08:00] Learning from personal crossroads: sports injury, law, and political work

  • [00:10:00] Beginning the AND Campaign: from political activism to movement leadership

  • [00:13:00] The legacy of the Civil Rights era and moral imagination

  • [00:16:00] Political tribalism, Christian engagement, and party alignment

  • [00:22:00] Core principles of the AND Campaign and engaging as a faithful Christian

  • [00:25:00] Civic pluralism: persuading without imposing faith

  • [00:27:00] Importance of relationships over culture war ideology

  • [00:34:00] Honest critiques of progressivism and conservatism

  • [00:43:00] Addiction to outrage and the loss of moral clarity

  • [00:51:00] Opposition-centered engagement and political virtue signaling

  • [00:56:00] Final thoughts on leadership, truth, and compassion

🧠 Key Takeaways

  • Faith Requires Courage: Being a faithful Christian in the public square demands moral clarity, humility, and the ability to stand apart from political allegiances.

  • Reject Political Tribalism: Christians must transcend party lines and speak truth to power, even to their own political "side."

  • Moral Imagination Is Essential: The ability to imagine what ought to be—especially in times of conflict—is the key to compassionate and just civic engagement.

  • Civil Rights Generation as a Model: Justin draws inspiration from the faith, resilience, and clarity of leaders like his grandmother Willie Faye and Mahalia Jackson.

  • Opposition-Centered Engagement is Toxic: Defining oneself solely by opposition to the "other side" leads to shallow, reactive politics.

💬 Notable Quotes

“Discipleship isn’t easy—and loving your neighbor especially when it’s hard, is where the Gospel really comes alive.”
— Justin Giboney

“If the Civil Rights generation could love their enemies with hoses and bombs aimed at them, we can love ours with tweets and outrage.”
— Justin Giboney

“True leadership today means turning around and telling your side what it needs to do better.”
— Justin Giboney

📚 Featured Book

Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church’s Public Witness Leads Us Out of the Culture War - www.ivpress.com/don-t-let-nobody-turn-you-around
🗓️ Coming November 4, 2025

🔗 Connect with Justin Giboney

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Read more

Cursing, Criticism, and the Conversations Worth Keeping

Friday Oct 03, 2025

Friday Oct 03, 2025

A raw look at which relationships and conversations are worth our time—and when to just say f* it.

✨ Episode Summary

In this candid, off-the-cuff talk, Corey wrestles with a series of deeply personal and philosophical questions that lie at the heart of this progam’s mission:
👉 Which conversations are worth pursuing?
👉 Which relationships are worth nurturing?
👉 And at what point should we walk away for the sake of our own peace—and the greater good?

From fielding scriptural "shard attacks" for using colorful language to being targeted with assumptions rooted in ignorance and bigotry, Corey lays bare some inner conflicts with vulnerability, humor, and, yes, a few well-placed f-bombs. This isn't just an airing of grievances—it's an invitation to reflect on how we can all be fountains, not drains in a world sorely in need of healing.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

⏱️ Timestamps & Topics

  • [00:00:00] Intro, shout-out to Substack community & podcast housekeeping

  • [00:02:00] ⚾ Quick tangent: Brooklyn Cyclones, Mets fandom, and hope for the future

  • [00:03:00] Opening big questions: What convos and relationships are worth it?

  • [00:04:00] Story #1: Being called out for cursing—and Corey's take on "Christian language policing"

  • [00:07:00] Righteous anger, proof-texting, and weaponizing Scripture

  • [00:09:00] Story #2: Encountering prejudice disguised as critique

  • [00:12:00] Recounting meaningful dialogue with Lisa Sharon Harper as a contrast

  • [00:14:00] Deep pain, generational trauma, and the erasure of Jewish identity

  • [00:17:00] Hatefulness vs. ignorance—where do we draw the line?

  • [00:18:30] Who gets to be in the “cool kids club” of social justice discourse?

  • [00:19:30] Questions to the audience: Are we fountains or drains in this world?

  • [00:20:00] Final thoughts: Owning the heat, seeking feedback, and doing better

🧠 Key Takeaways

  • Language vs. Intent: A well-placed curse word shouldn’t overshadow a meaningful, vulnerable message.

  • Weaponizing Scripture: Proof-texting undermines the depth and context of sacred texts—and can be deeply harmful.

  • Bigotry in Disguise: Assumptions based on skin tone or identity reduce complex histories and humanity to dangerous stereotypes.

  • Be a Fountain, Not a Drain: Ask yourself—are your words and actions contributing to tikkun olam (repairing the world), or draining its soul?

  • Not Every Battle is Yours: Sometimes walking away is an act of wisdom and self-preservation, not cowardice.

📖 Bonus Reading

  • Proverbs 31 vs Proverbs 27: Woman of valor or dripping faucet? Decide for yourself.

  • George Washington’s Farewell Address: Surprisingly prophetic in its warnings about factionalism.

  • Tikkun Olam: Explore the Jewish concept of repairing the world and how it applies to today’s discourse.

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Read more

Inside Heterodox Academy: Jonathan Rauch and Liz Joyner on Reclaiming Truth in a Fractured Democracy

Tuesday Sep 30, 2025

Tuesday Sep 30, 2025

Why defending viewpoint diversity might be the most radical—and necessary—act in higher education today.

🎧 Episode Summary

What a treat to welcome two leading voices in the fight for viewpoint diversity and constructive civic dialogue: Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at Brookings and author of The Constitution of Knowledge, and Liz Joyner, founder of The Village Square.

As board members of Heterodox Academy (HxA), Jon and Liz unpack the organization’s mission to restore open inquiry and truth-seeking within higher education—and how these values are essential to preserving our democracy at large. With personal stories, sharp analysis, and even a few laughs, they explore what we each can do to counter the ecosystem of illiberalism and strengthen the social fabric.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🕰️ Timestamps & Topics

  • [00:00:00] Intro: What’s broken in our democracy and how we fix it

  • [00:01:00] Meet the guests: Jonathan Rauch and Liz Joyner

  • [00:03:00] What is Heterodox Academy and how did it begin?

  • [00:06:00] Rauch on early signs of "wokeness" and Kindly Inquisitors

  • [00:08:00] Joyner’s grassroots experience with ideological diversity at Village Square

  • [00:10:00] The "ecosystem of illiberalism" and why liberal principles matter

  • [00:15:00] Can HxA help defend against external political coercion?

  • [00:20:00] Are we headed toward institutional collapse or renewal?

  • [00:25:00] Speech vs. coercion: The cultural and legal frontlines

  • [00:33:00] Personal costs of speaking out: Corey’s Chappelle story

  • [00:36:00] What should institutions do to defend free speech?

  • [00:39:00] On the Trump administration’s authoritarian tactics

  • [00:45:00] Fears for 2026 and 2028 elections

  • [00:48:00] Signs of progress: Academic reform, FIRE, and HxA programs

  • [00:54:00] How to break the cycle of intolerance

  • [00:56:00] How do we actually talk to people who disagree?

  • [01:01:00] "Love people back into communion with liberalism"

  • [01:08:00] The local vs. national divide—learning from LA’s fires & ICE raids

  • [01:14:00] Final reflections: Reclaiming truth, curiosity, and compassion

💡 Key Takeaways

  • Liberalism needs defenders: Jon reminds us that truth-seeking demands criticism—and that “criticism hurts, but it’s necessary.”

  • Civic spaces matter: Liz underscores the importance of local, respectful dialogue and building trust before crisis hits.

  • The ecosystem is the problem: Illiberalism isn't coming from just one side; it’s a reactive spiral we must all help disrupt.

  • Institutions must hold firm: It's not disagreement that's dangerous—it's coercion by powerful entities that silence dissent.

  • Each of us has a role: From book clubs to coffee shops, we can all “love people back into communion with liberalism.”

🧠 Notable Quotes

🗣️ “We are better together. A diverse people can self-govern—if we protect the institutions that help us do so.” – Liz Joyner

🧠 “If I’m talking, I’m not learning. If I’m listening, I probably am.” – Jonathan Rauch

❤️ “What I’d like you to talk about today is how we can love people back into communion with liberalism.” – Quoting Jonathan V. Last (via Liz Joyner)

🔗 Resources & Mentions

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Read more

🎙️ THEY Didn't Do It – A Candid Call for Accountability

Friday Sep 26, 2025

Friday Sep 26, 2025

In times of national tragedy, can we resist the urge to turn our grief into political ammo? Sadly, our current leaders can't seem to find their better angels. So who's gonna do the right thing?

🧭 Episode Summary

Fair warning: Your trusty friend and host is a little hot under the collar on this one. We're addressing the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and the toxic political blame game that followed. Corey dismantles the knee-jerk scapegoating by political leaders—particularly from the Trump administration—and calls for a return to civility, empathy, and individual responsibility.

Drawing inspiration from great American leaders such as Lincoln, Douglass, MLK, Reagan, and Jack Kemp, Corey urges listeners to rise above the “us vs. them” narrative and engage in meaningful conversations across ideological divides. This isn’t just a podcast—it’s a wake-up call for moral courage and collective healing.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🕰️ Timestamps & Highlights

Time Topic
00:00 🎙️ Introduction & what's bugging Corey today
01:30 ⚖️ Criticism of current leadership’s divisive rhetoric post-tragedy
03:00 🔥 “They didn’t do it.” – the central thesis
05:30 🧠 Why scapegoating is dangerous and lazy
06:00 🗣️ Quotes from historical leaders on unity
08:00 🙌 Remembering real conservatism and integrity in leadership
10:00 💰 A quick word about sponsor: Meza Wealth Management
11:00 🧍‍♂️ One-on-one conversations > tribal politics
13:00 🧘 Rejecting polarization and choosing relationship over rage
15:00 ❓ How to ask genuine questions without interrogating
17:00 ✡️ Tikkun Olam – the Jewish concept of healing the world
18:00 🧭 Final thoughts: Courage, not cowardice, builds bridges
19:00 🙏 Outro: Feedback, Substack, YouTube, and a call to respectful conversation

💡 Key Takeaways

  • “They didn’t do it”: One person is responsible for a crime—not an entire political party or ideology.

  • Scapegoating is intellectually and morally lazy; real leadership seeks unity, not division.

  • History holds better role models: From Lincoln to Reagan, great leaders have called for reconciliation, not retaliation.

  • Genuine conversations with those who think differently are the antidote to political polarization.

  • Tikkun Olam: We each have a responsibility to repair the world—one action, one conversation at a time.

📢 Notable Quotes

🗨️ “Scapegoating is cowardice. It’s morally and intellectually lazy.”

🗨️ “They didn’t do it. An individual did.”

🗨️ “If grief morphs into blaming anyone who voted differently than you, that’s not mourning—that’s scapegoating.”

🗨️ “We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies.” – Abraham Lincoln

🗨️ “Democracy without respect for the dignity of each individual is not democracy at all.” – Jack Kemp

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Read more

Dr. Beth Allison Barr on Women, Power, and the Pastor’s Wife Problem in Evangelicalism

Tuesday Sep 23, 2025

Tuesday Sep 23, 2025

What if the role of “pastor’s wife” wasn’t biblical at all, but a cultural invention that sidelined women from ministry? Dr. Beth Allison Barr pulls back the curtain on how power, patriarchy, and politics shaped Evangelical churches—and why reclaiming women’s voices could change everything.

Episode Summary

So glad to sit down with Dr. Beth Allison Barr—medievalist, church historian, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Becoming the Pastor’s Wife—for a candid conversation about faith, history, evangelical subcultures, and women’s leadership in the church. Beth traces how the modern “pastor’s wife” role emerged alongside the decline of women’s ordination, shows how women have always done pastoral work, and offers grounded, hope-filled ways to talk across differences in a volatile moment.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

Timestamps

  • 00:00 — Introductions & context. Beth’s scholarship, books, UK ties; growing up in a Bible-saturated town and how her kids encountered questions of faith earlier than she did.

  • 05:00 — Faith in action vs. attendance. Story of her son choosing hands-on ministry with Mission Waco / Church Under the Bridge and serving the unhoused.

  • 08:00 — History’s ballast in turbulent times. Democracy’s fragility, finding joy, and why she stays to “fight for a country I believe in.”

  • 16:45 — Responding to political violence. Grieving a public figure’s death, fearing the blame game, and the dangers of escalation.

  • 24:00 — Media myths & “those people.” How conspiratorial frames dehumanize.

  • 25:00 — Dobson, MacArthur & evangelical father-figures. The guru dynamic, platformed authority, and downstream damage.

  • 29:00 — Why this book. From Making of Biblical Womanhood to the historical link between pastor’s wives and the decline of women’s ordination.

  • 32:00 — “There are no male pastors in the Bible either.” Pastor as a modern construct; early church roles were gifts and functions, not a job title.

  • 36:30 — Phoebe, Junia & collaborative authorship. The first named deacon tied to a local church is a woman; letters emerged from communities.

  • 41:00 — Power & gatekeeping. Why certain leaders resist change; SBC moments like cutting Rick Warren’s mic.

  • 46:30 — Handling pushback graciously. Ask questions, surface assumptions, adjust tone by relationship.

  • 50:00 — The economics of titles. Same work, different labels → less power and pay; survey showing ~80% of women in official church roles are part-time or unpaid.

  • 53:00 — Does “biblical authority” really forbid women leading? On misusing a few verses vs. the witness of the whole Bible.

  • 57:00 — That cover art 👀. Catherine of Alexandria—the patron saint of preachers—casts a telling shadow.

  • 58:00 — The TP&R Question. See the image of God in each person; start from shared humanity when conversations get heated.

  • 01:01:00 — What’s next. A “freeing” medieval project taking shape.

“There are no female pastors in the Bible? There are no male pastors in the Bible either… what we see are people serving in a variety of functions.”

Key Takeaways

  • “Pastor” is a gift before it’s a job. In the New Testament it points to shepherding, not a fixed office; early churches named teachers, apostles, deacons—roles women also filled (e.g., Phoebe).

  • Same work, different label. Churches often call women’s pastoral work something else—reducing power and pay. Structural choices, not Scripture, drive much of the disparity.

  • Power protects itself. Resistance to women’s leadership is frequently about protecting positions and rhetoric, not about biblical fidelity.

  • How to engage across differences. Begin with imago Dei; remember hurt often fuels hostility; ask questions that surface assumptions; adjust posture to the relationship.

Memorable Quotes

  • “A text without a context is a pretext to say whatever you want.”

  • “Women have done everything men did in the early church—we just renamed their work.”

  • “See the image of God before you see a label.”

Resources & Mentions

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

And we are proud members of The Democracy Group: democracygroup.org

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Read more

From Trauma to Torah: Rabbi Michael Holzman’s Mission to Rebuild American Democracy

Friday Sep 19, 2025

Friday Sep 19, 2025

After October 7, Rabbi Michael Holzman wasn’t just mourning—he was mobilizing. A project he had already spent years developing. Discover how one rabbi is using ancient wisdom, civic rituals, and interfaith grit to heal our fractured democracy.

In this episode, we sit down with Rabbi Michael Holzman, spiritual leader of the Northern Virginia Hebrew Congregation and founder of the Rebuilding Democracy Project. Together, we explore the fragile yet vital intersection of faith, politics, and civic life, tackling tough questions with grace, insight, and a touch of humor.

From personal stories of family division over politics to deeply Jewish perspectives on democracy, Rabbi Holzman opens up about how religious communities can serve as training grounds for better civic engagement. He also shares how his own path—from a secular upbringing to becoming a reform rabbi—shaped his commitment to democratic values.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

⏱️ Timestamp Highlights:

  • [00:00:40] Welcome & intro to Rabbi Holzman and his work in democracy-building

  • [00:03:10] What does “lantzman” mean, and how does it reflect communal responsibility?

  • [00:04:40] Exploring Rabbi Holzman’s family history: German and Eastern European Jewish roots

  • [00:10:40] A spiritual upbringing grounded in nature, ethics, and the roots of his rabbinic calling

  • [00:14:10] The life-altering moment that shifted his path from medicine to ministry

  • [00:18:40] A personal journey through political polarization with his father

  • [00:26:40] Understanding the emotional and psychological impact of political echo chambers

  • [00:31:40] Why local synagogues and churches are essential spaces for democratic practice

  • [00:39:40] Launching the Rebuilding Democracy Project

  • [00:50:40] The power of scripture—both Jewish and American—in bridging divides

  • [00:56:40] “10 Faith Habits for Effective Citizenship”

  • [00:57:40] Rabbi Holzman’s reflection on Israel, Gaza, and ethical leadership

  • [01:00:40] Closing insights on disagreeing better and civic healing

💡 Key Takeaways:

  • "We have to build a culture that values dissent." — Rabbi Holzman on embracing disagreement as a civic virtue.

  • Faith communities can model democratic practices through sacred rituals like respectful dialogue and structured governance.

  • Personal experience with political polarization—especially in families—can become a catalyst for bridge-building.

  • The American Scripture Project uses historical texts and Torah to help congregations grapple with today's civic challenges.

  • Healthy democracy depends on rituals that reassure losers of their place in the system—a principle eroded by events like January 6th.

🔗 Resources & Mentions:

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

Read more

Governor John Kasich on Healing America: Faith, Forgiveness, and Civic Courage

Tuesday Sep 16, 2025

Tuesday Sep 16, 2025

A deeply personal and timely conversation with Governor John Kasich on bridging divides, living your values, and why forgiveness is essential in today’s fractured political landscape.

We were so pleased to be joined by Governor John Kasich who opens up about the role of faith, forgiveness, and civic duty in his life and career. The conversation spans everything from the tragic loss of his parents to a drunk driver, his evolving views on religion and politics, to the lessons shared in his newest book Heaven Help Us.

Governor Kasich's winsome curiosity sparked a profound dialogue about personal transformation, ideological differences, and how to build bridges in divided times.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🧭 Timestamped Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] – Introduction to Kasich’s political legacy and current work
  • [00:07:00] – Governor Kasich's early faith, altar boy days, and influence of Father Farina
  • [00:09:00] – Losing his parents: a turning point in faith and life
  • [00:12:00] – Acts of faith: stories from Heaven Help Us 📖
  • [00:18:00] – Forgiveness, faith across traditions, and healing from trauma
  • [00:23:00] – The danger of losing objective truth in society
  • [00:25:00] – Story of Sister Mary Scullion and dignity for the homeless 🏠
  • [00:29:00] – Substack sneak peek: “Keep Faith America”
  • [00:34:00] – On policy, principle, and political backlash
  • [00:39:00] – Interfaith unity: mosque, synagogue, and church on shared land 🌍
  • [00:43:00] – Full-circle moment on forgiveness and memory
  • [00:46:00] – How to talk across differences—without killin' each other
  • [00:50:00] – Farewell and faith-driven future projects

💡 Notable Quotes:

“If that guy could turn the clock back… I suspect he would. So I actually don’t bear any kind of feelings anymore. Probably by the grace of God.” – John Kasich

“You can’t decide whether to like someone based on who they voted for.” – John Kasich

“Forgiveness takes time. Sometimes you forgive, then you wonder—did I really?” – John Kasich

“Everyone has a story. But we rarely take the time to listen.” – John Kasich

📚 Mentioned in This Episode:

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“We Must Not Be Enemies”: Reflecting on the Assassination of Charlie Kirk

Friday Sep 12, 2025

Friday Sep 12, 2025

✨ This Is Not the Way — The Tragedy of the Assassination of Charlie Kirk and What It Means for Our Country

In this episode, we take time to reflect on the shocking assassination of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, who was gunned down while speaking at a college campus. Instead of political posturing, let's have humane, constructive dialogue—and reject dehumanization, resist scapegoating, and reclaim our shared humanity.

Marking this tragedy on the anniversary of 9/11, we'll look at Lincoln’s words and the bipartisan statements of former presidents to remind us: "We are not enemies, but friends." This is not a moment for tribal rage or performative outrage—this is a moment to mourn, reflect, and reach across divides.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🧭 What We Explore:

  • The perils of partisan dehumanization and scapegoating in times of tragedy

  • Why collective blame poisons public discourse and corrodes democracy

  • A powerful call to introspection: “What has hatred done to you?”

  • Reflections on the assassination’s timing—on 9/11—and what that means for national unity

  • Historical and moral guidance from Abraham Lincoln’s First Inaugural Address

⏱️ Timestamps & Highlights:

Time Segment
[00:00:00] Intro: “This is not the way” — a call for humanity over tribalism
[00:01:30] Learning about Charlie Kirk’s assassination and initial reactions
[00:03:30] Reflections on a contentious figure and respecting the humanity beneath disagreement
[00:06:30] Mourning the death of a father, husband, speaker—what Charlie stood for
[00:08:00] Predictable partisan responses—from gloating to vilification—and resisting them
[00:10:00] The current president's divisive speech and what should have been said
[00:11:00] Statements from living former Presidents—compassion, unity, dignity 🕊️
[00:12:30] Addressing those who rejoice: “Get the word ‘them’ out of your mouth.”
[00:14:00] A personal memory from 9/11: national unity without needing a tragedy
[00:15:00] A stirring reading from Lincoln: “We must not be enemies…” 🇺🇸
[00:17:30] Final call to action: Talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect

🔑 Key Takeaways:

  • Hatred dehumanizes the hater. Scapegoating “the other side” after tragedy only feeds the fire of division.

  • Individual acts of violence must not be ascribed to entire communities or ideologies.

  • Healing begins inwardly. Reclaim your humanity before trying to change others.

  • True leadership requires moral courage, not performative outrage or culture war posturing.

  • “We must not be enemies.” The words of Abraham Lincoln are more needed than ever.

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🎙️ Greg Lukianoff on How Free Speech Is Under Fire—from Both the Left and the Right

Tuesday Sep 09, 2025

Tuesday Sep 09, 2025

Why defending expression—even the speech you hate—is essential to democracy in 2025.

Episode Summary:

It was great to welcome back Greg Lukianoff, President and CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). Greg is also a New York Times bestselling author and executive producer of the feature-length documentaries Can We Take a Joke? (2015) and the award-winning Mighty Ira: A Civil Liberties Story (2020). In this conversation, we dive deep into the evolving challenges to free speech, the myths that undermine it, and why defending expression—even the speech we disagree with—is essential to democracy.

Drawing on personal stories, historical lessons, and his recent book The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech and Why They Fail, Greg discusses how free expression protects us from tyranny, the importance of principled advocacy, and how we can better engage across divides.

🧭 Timestamps & Topics:

  • 00:03:00 – Growing up as a first-generation American & discovering the importance of free speech
  • 00:07:00 – Early days with FIRE and the roots of his legal passion
  • 00:10:00 – What Nazi Germany teaches us about censorship
  • 00:16:00 – Mob censorship, peaceful protest, and the slippery slope
  • 00:24:00 – Debunking the “words are violence” fallacy
  • 00:34:00 – Why “shouting fire in a crowded theater” is misunderstood
  • 00:39:00 – Incitement, disinformation, and legal precedent
  • 00:50:00 – Can we trust the courts to protect civil liberties?
  • 00:56:00 – How to disagree without being disagreeable

💡 Key Takeaways:

  • Free speech is not a partisan issue – FIRE defends it across the political spectrum, even when it’s unpopular.

  • The myth of words as violence undermines peaceful discourse and invites real violence in return.

  • Historical lessons from Weimar Germany show that censorship can backfire—even empower fascism.

  • Shout-downs aren’t free speech – they are mob censorship in disguise.

  • Trust in the courts and constitutional law can still be a guardrail against overreach, from both left and right.

  • We must relearn how to listen, not just argue—to be curious, not combative.

🔥 Notable Quotes:

“Violence is not an extreme form of protest—it’s the antithesis of what free speech is for.”
— Greg Lukianoff

“Free speech is the peaceful substitute for violence.”
— Greg Lukianoff

📚 Resources & Mentions:

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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🎙️ Reckoning with Legacy — Dobson, MacArthur, and the Future of the Church with Special Guests Lisa Sharon Harper and Joe Smith

Friday Sep 05, 2025

Friday Sep 05, 2025

Dobson and MacArthur shaped a movement. Now it's time to ask: at what cost?

✨ Episode Summary

In this powerful roundtable conversation, host Corey Nathan is joined by author and public theologian Lisa Sharon Harper and pastor Joe Smith to explore the complex legacies of James Dobson and John MacArthur—two towering figures in American Evangelicalism who recently passed away.

What starts as a reflective discussion on personal experiences with Dobson’s and MacArthur’s teachings evolves into a profound analysis of spiritual formation, systemic violence, and the urgent need for a new way forward in faith communities.

Together, the guests courageously confront the intersections of race, gender, theology, and power—and what it means to heal, both personally and as a collective.

⏱️ Timestamps

Time Topic
00:00 Introduction to the episode & guests
01:00 Lisa Sharon Harper on her spiritual beginnings
03:00 Legacy and impact of James Dobson
08:00 Dobson’s theology of discipline and its cultural roots
14:00 The trauma of “biblical” corporal punishment
20:00 Confessions of former Dobson followers — personal growth and regret
25:00 John MacArthur's institutional power and theological rigidity
30:00 Colonialism and the colonization of scripture
36:00 Reading scripture through empire vs. liberation
44:00 Who benefits from dominant theological frameworks?
48:00 Embracing humility and paradigm shifts in theology
54:00 Stories of change: how family and love reshape theology
1:02:00 Creating soft landing spaces for theological transformation
1:08:00 Substack, Freedom Road, and Lisa’s ongoing work
1:10:00 Final reflections on urgent action, humility, and grace

🧠 Key Takeaways

  • Dobson’s influence wasn’t just theological—it had lasting psychological, cultural, and political ramifications, particularly around corporal punishment.

  • John MacArthur's legacy is marked by strict dogmatism and theological frameworks that protect power structures.

  • Colonial frameworks of reading the Bible have displaced the voices of those who were closest to the original context of scripture.

  • Transformation is possible, but it requires humility, relationships, and spaces where people can ask hard questions without fear.

  • Urgency matters — personal and institutional change cannot come at the cost of marginalized communities' well-being.

🔥 Notable Quotes

🗣️ "Dobson taught us to break children like we break horses. But what does that say about our own brokenness?" — Lisa Sharon Harper

🗣️ "Scripture can't only be understood one way across all time and cultures—that's not reverence, that's colonialism." — Joe Smith

🗣️ "People's freedom can't wait for our paradigm shift." — Lisa Sharon Harper

📚 Resources & Mentions

🙌 Connect with the Guests

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

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✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Guardrails of Democracy: Daniel Weiner of the Brennan Center on Authoritarianism, Election Integrity, and Legal Guardrails

Tuesday Sep 02, 2025

Tuesday Sep 02, 2025

What happens when law firms, universities, and elections come under fire—and how we can all help hold the line for democracy.

🧭 Episode Summary

In this timely and incisive conversation, Daniel Weiner, a leading legal expert on democracy and rule of law, joins host Corey Nathan to unpack the rising authoritarian tendencies in the U.S., how democratic institutions are responding, and why legal guardrails are more critical than ever. Daniel, who serves as Director of the Brennan Center's Elections and Government Program, discusses the fragility of civil society, the weaponization of government power, and practical steps citizens and institutions can take to uphold democracy.

They also dive into:

  • The ethical obligations of law firms under pressure

  • Harvard University's legal pushback against the federal government

  • Election integrity in 2026 and 2028

  • Gerrymandering, Project 2025, and the role of independent commissions

  • How regular folks can be part of the pro-democracy coalition

This is a must-listen episode for anyone concerned about the future of American democracy and looking for informed, balanced, and actionable insights.

⏰ Timestamps & Key Topics

  • [00:00:00] Introduction to Daniel Weiner and his work at the Brennan Center

  • [00:04:00] Harvard's legal fight over academic freedom and federal funding

  • [00:06:30] Defining authoritarianism: Legal vs. rhetorical retribution

  • [00:11:00] What should law firms and universities do under federal threats?

  • [00:15:00] Daniel's journey from historian to legal advocate for democracy

  • [00:18:00] The ethics of mid-decade redistricting in Texas vs. California

  • [00:22:00] Why national standards for elections are necessary

  • [00:30:00] The mission and work of the Brennan Center for Justice

  • [00:33:00] Concerns for election integrity in 2026 and 2028

  • [00:40:00] Should the U.S. move toward national election administration?

  • [00:47:00] The vertical balance of power: Governors vs. federal overreach

  • [00:54:00] The Trump administration’s push to fire a Federal Reserve governor

  • [01:03:00] What each of us can do to protect democracy

💡 Notable Quotes

“When you look at what staves off authoritarianism... free and fair elections are critical, but civil society—including universities and nonprofits—is a bulwark.” – Daniel Weiner

“It’s legal and appropriate for administrations to enforce the law, but when power is deployed arbitrarily as political retribution, that’s authoritarianism.” – Daniel Weiner

“We need to learn how to sit with people who vote differently than us—not to rehearse rebuttals, but to ask questions and seek understanding.” – Corey Nathan

“Until we get national solutions to gerrymandering, we’ll continue to see tit-for-tat behavior across states.” – Daniel Weiner

🛠️ Resources & References

🗣️ Connect with the Guest

Daniel Weiner

🔹 Director, Elections & Government Program, Brennan Center

🔹 Twitter / X - x.com/DanWeiner329

🔹 Bluesky - bsky.app/profile/danw329.bsky.social

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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🎧 How NOT to Talk About Politics and Religion (And we got some DOOZIES to discuss!)

Thursday Aug 28, 2025

Thursday Aug 28, 2025

Is there any escaping the "Us vs. Them" mindset?

🗣️ Episode Summary

What are the pitfalls of engaging in political and religious discourse—especially on platforms like TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram? Drawing from recent interactions on his posts about Israel, Trump, democracy, and faith, Corey breaks down how NOT to engage in these conversations, underscoring the dangers of generalizing, mischaracterizing, and vilifying others.

🧭 What We Explore:

  • The dangers of black-and-white thinking in our polarized times 🌓

  • The importance of maintaining relationships across political divides ❤️🤝

  • Why shaming and moral superiority don’t win hearts, minds—or elections 🗳️

  • How online toxicity and echo chambers hinder democratic dialogue 🌐⚠️

⏱️ Timestamps & Highlights

  • [00:00:00] Introduction: Why this all matters now more than ever

  • [00:02:00] Reflections on engaging across multiple social platforms

  • [00:04:00] Reading and responding to vile and antisemitic comments

  • [00:07:00] The impact of identity and assumptions on discourse

  • [00:09:00] “Is everyone who voted differently suddenly an enemy?” 🤔

  • [00:12:00] On friendships with Trump supporters and relational complexity

  • [00:17:00] Responding to accusations of being “complicit”

  • [00:21:00] The impossibility of persuading through shame or purity tests

  • [00:26:00] “They want to see you dead”—the danger of total dehumanization

  • [00:29:00] On being called a “rapist worshiper” for loving Trump voters

  • [00:34:00] The misuse of Scripture in political arguments 📖

  • [00:40:00] Critique of redistricting and political generalizations

  • [00:44:00] Final thoughts: Save democracy through relationship and reason ✨

🔑 Key Takeaways

  • Dehumanization destroys dialogue: Reducing others to labels like “enemy,” “MAGAt,” or “rapist worshiper” erodes the social fabric.

  • Assumptions are toxic: Many presume political affiliation tells the full story—Corey reminds us it doesn’t.

  • Engagement ≠ endorsement: Loving or talking to someone with different beliefs isn’t betraying your values.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

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Drawing the Line: When Gerrymandering Becomes Political Warfare

Monday Aug 25, 2025

Monday Aug 25, 2025

🎙️ Diving back into the gerrymandering / redistricting wars and the so-called "war on democracy." Is it a real war or political hyperbole? Corey unpacks recent redistricting efforts in Texas and California, confronts ethical and legal questions, and most importantly, discusses how we talk about these issues — especially when we disagree.

From institutional norms to California’s independent redistricting commission, we'll look at a nuanced, principled stance while challenging the increasingly combative political discourse. This episode is a rallying cry for more respectful, informed, and constructive conversations. ☕🗣️

⏰ Timestamps & Topics

  • [00:00:00] – Hyperbolic intros & the “war” framing

  • [00:01:00] – Texas redistricting: legal, ethical, wise?

  • [00:05:00] – Comparing Texas to California’s independent commission

  • [00:07:00] – Is it gerrymandering or “dummymandering”?

  • [00:10:00] – Corey’s personal impact from redistricting lines

  • [00:12:00] – CalExit? Exploring state-level autonomy

  • [00:15:00] – What makes responses democratic vs. anti-democratic

  • [00:17:00] – Instead of war: How about winning votes?

  • [00:18:00] – Latinx & language: When messaging backfires

  • [00:21:00] – Listener pushback: From “coward” to “wet noodle”

  • [00:26:00] – Political warfare and dehumanizing rhetoric

  • [00:30:00] – The danger of escalating political language

  • [00:32:00] – What Corey is willing to risk for peace and democracy

  • [00:33:00] – Final thoughts: Talk politics with gentleness and respect

💡 Key Takeaways

  • Legal ≠ Ethical ≠ Wise: Just because something is legal, like Texas’ mid-decade redistricting, doesn’t mean it’s ethical or wise.

  • Independent commissions work: California's model, while imperfect, supports representative democracy and reduces partisan gerrymandering.

  • Respectful discourse is essential: Hyperbolic rhetoric (“war,” “enemies,” “fascists”) hinders progress and dehumanizes fellow citizens.

  • Real change comes from persuasion: Winning hearts, minds, and votes is more sustainable than retaliatory political tactics.

  • Corey’s core belief: Anti-democratic actions shouldn't be met with more anti-democratic responses.

🔊 Notable Quotes

“If everything's an existential threat, nothing's an existential threat.”

“We need to be able to talk to our neighbors, talk to our friends, talk to our loved ones that happen to feel differently about this issue.”

“You want to be right, or do you want to win?”

“I am betting on conversations — at coffee shops, over drinks, at soccer games — to preserve our democracy.”

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

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From the Streets to a PhD: Dr. Terence Lester on Faith, Educational Injustice, and Fighting for Equity in a Broken System

Thursday Aug 21, 2025

Thursday Aug 21, 2025

Dr. Terence Lester on overcoming poverty, confronting systemic racism in education, and how we can show up for students our schools are failing.

Introduction:
Dr. Terence Lester is an activist, speaker, professor, and founder of Love Beyond Walls, a nonprofit focused on raising awareness about poverty and homelessness. Dr. Lester shares his remarkable story—from dropping out of high school to earning a doctorate—and how personal experience shapes his advocacy. We dive deep into the topics of systemic injustice, education, faith, and what it truly means to be present with those on the margins.

What We Discuss:

  • How Dr. Lester’s personal journey fuels his mission

  • The impact of educational redlining and systemic inequality

  • How faith, mentors, and community shaped his life

  • What churches and individuals can do to respond to injustice

  • How to build proximity and empathy across differences

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Dr. Lester reflects on living in gratitude and grief at once

  • [00:05:00] The dismantling of Black history and language in public discourse

  • [00:10:00] How policy and redlining impacted Dr. Lester’s childhood neighborhood

  • [00:15:00] A teacher named Ms. West sees his potential and changes his life

  • [00:23:00] Mr. Moore tells Dr. Lester, “One day you’ll be a leader”

  • [00:31:00] His grandmother and the spiritual foundation of faith in a historic Black church

  • [00:36:00] A night in jail becomes a turning point in his faith journey

  • [00:46:00] What the church is missing—and what it could become

  • [00:54:00] How we can all build relationships across differences

Featured Quotes:
“Sometimes people have to borrow your courage.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“Distance is the enemy of belonging.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“You never know how far I’ve traveled to be here—and I’m not talking about geography.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“If you preach from your life’s text, you’ll never run out of material.” – Dr. Lester, quoting his Bible professor

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

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Most of Us Are in the Middle — So Why Are the Extremes Controlling the Conversation?

Tuesday Aug 19, 2025

Tuesday Aug 19, 2025

Not Right. Not Left. Not Crazy. Just Real Talk About Politics and People. 43% of Us Aren’t Partisan Left or Right. This Episode Is for You.

Reflecting on what it means to be politically independent in a time of increasing polarization. Drawing on personal stories and hot-button issues like Israel/Palestine, redistricting, and public safety, host Corey Nathan makes a compelling case for the 43% of Americans who don’t fully align with the far right or progressive left—and offers guidance on how we can still talk to each other with grace and clarity.

What Is Discussed:

  • The 3 main categories of political identity in America

  • Why a plurality of us fall into a misunderstood, complex “middle”

  • How to approach political conversations without labeling

  • What really motivates voters—and why economic messaging matters

  • Practical ways to connect across divides without compromising your values

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:02:00] Defining the “three buckets”: partisan right, left, and the independent middle

  • [00:06:30] Mislabeling in political debates – a story about Israel and being misunderstood

  • [00:12:00] How to hold multiple truths in the Israel/Palestine conflict

  • [00:15:00] On crime, Trump, and false binaries

  • [00:19:30] Redistricting in Texas—and why legal doesn’t mean ethical

  • [00:23:00] Why cost of living, not slogans, will decide 2026 & 2028 elections

  • [00:27:00] Do’s & don’ts for meaningful political conversations

  • [00:33:00] Learning from mistakes and leading with respect

Featured Quotes:
🗣️ “Go in with the goal of connecting, not convincing.” – Corey Nathan
🗣️ “The world is not black and white. The world is not Democrat or Republican.” – Corey Nathan
🗣️ “Just because we don't agree with your particular orthodoxy doesn't mean we're part of the other side.” – Corey Nathan

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

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Matthew D. Taylor: The NAR's War on Democracy & The Path to Rehumanizing Faith

Thursday Aug 14, 2025

Thursday Aug 14, 2025

Exposing the New Apostolic Reformation's anti-democratic Seven Mountain Mandate and its profound impact on Christian nationalism, urging a return to interreligious dialogue and Jesus' core teachings to rehumanize faith and defend liberal democracy - we're joined by Dr. Matthew D. Taylor to discuss all this and more.

Dr. Matthew D. Taylor is a leading scholar and practitioner in interfaith dialogue and a fierce advocate for pluralism in American society who holds a Ph.D. in Theological and Religious Studies with a focus on comparative religion and modern radical movements within both Christianity and Islam. He currently serves at the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies in Baltimore, where he works to dismantle antisemitism, Islamophobia, and Christian nationalism. Together, Corey and Matt explore the evolution of evangelicalism, the rise of Christian nationalism, the dangerous theology of the New Apostolic Reformation, and the crucial role of pluralistic democracy in a divided America.

What We Discuss:

  • Why Dr. Taylor left evangelicalism and what drew him to interfaith dialogue

  • The alarming growth and influence of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)

  • How NAR theology is shaping U.S. politics and threatening democracy

  • The distinction between liberal and illiberal democracy

  • How to rehumanize political and religious discourse in polarized environments

  • What Christians can do to confront authoritarianism from within their own communities

Episode Highlights:
[00:01:00] Dr. Taylor’s evangelical roots and why he left the movement
[00:05:00] From aspiring missionary to interfaith scholar: Matt’s pivotal moment in Turkey
[00:15:00] Understanding spiritual manipulation in evangelical circles
[00:25:00] Introducing the New Apostolic Reformation and the Seven Mountain Mandate
[00:37:00] How Christian nationalism is reshaping America’s political landscape
[00:45:00] Trump, prophecy, and the theological foundations of MAGA
[00:54:00] What liberal democracy means—and why it’s at risk in the U.S.
[01:03:00] A call for Christians to speak theologically against authoritarianism

Featured Quotes:

"If the propaganda is theological, the response has to be theological." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor

"We need to improve the quality of our disagreements." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor

"Right now, the propaganda holding MAGA together is theological—and Christians have a responsibility to speak into that." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor

"Jesus didn’t come to empower Christians to take power over others—he came to teach us to lay it down." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

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Redistricting Wars: Is It Wise to Fight Fire with Fire? Lessons from a Heated Dialogue.

Monday Aug 11, 2025

Monday Aug 11, 2025

Principles, Polarization, and the Perils of Partisan Shaming.

Let's dive into the heated “Redistricting Wars” in Texas, California, and other states. Using David French’s framework of “Is it legal? Is it ethical? Is it wise?”, Corey examines the legal, moral, and strategic angles of mid-decade redistricting.

From explaining the political strategies behind Texas’s proposed map changes to defending California’s independent redistricting commissions, Corey makes the case for more competitive, purple districts. He also shares a candid and sometimes heated social media exchange about whether sticking to democratic principles is the right approach when political opponents “fight dirty.”

*CORRECTION: Corey incorrectly referred to a conversation with Dr. Matthew D. Taylor. Corey incorrectly stated his first name as Michael instead of Matthew.

What Is Discussed:

  • Why Texas’s mid-decade redistricting is technically legal but ethically questionable

  • How California’s independent commissions foster competitive districts

  • The strategic risks of over-gerrymandering

  • The dangers of toxic partisanship and abandoning core principles

  • Why persuasion works better than shaming in political discourse

Episode highlights:

  • [00:02:00] Applying the “legal, ethical, wise” framework to Texas’s actions

  • [00:04:00] Why breaking redistricting norms is dangerous

  • [00:07:00] Why Corey doubts Texas will gain five seats through gerrymandering

  • [00:08:00] California’s purple districts and independent commissions

  • [00:12:00] Polling on overturning California’s commission system

  • [00:14:00] A revealing online exchange about principles vs. partisanship

  • [00:21:00] The problem with labeling all Trump voters as enemies of democracy

  • [00:27:00] Sticking to nonviolent, principled engagement during political urgency

  • [00:33:00] Why respectful persuasion beats moral grandstanding

Featured quotes:

  • “Is it legal? Is it ethical? Is it wise? That’s how I’m looking at this whole thing.”

  • “We need more purple districts—places where voters have to talk to each other, not just live in partisan silos.”

  • “We don’t abandon our principles when it’s convenient or when we think it’s urgent.”

  • “If your approach is to shame people into agreeing with you, you’re not persuading anyone—you’re pushing them away.”

Resources mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

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Thomas Chatterton Williams - SUMMER OF OUR DISCONTENT: The Age of Certainty and the Demise of Discourse

Friday Aug 08, 2025

Friday Aug 08, 2025

What happened between the election of the first black president in 2008 and the reelection of Donald Trump in 2024 that's led to "the age of certainty and the demise of discourse"? Well, as the brilliant writer Thomas Chatterton Williams recounts in his new book, there was the SUMMER OF OUR DISCONTENT.

In this episode, we get to sit down with Thomas—staff writer at The Atlantic and also author of Losing My Cool and Self-Portrait in Black and White. We explore race, identity, cancel culture, and the importance of preserving liberal values in a polarized society.

What We Discuss:

  • How Thomas’s biracial upbringing shapes his worldview

  • The story behind the “Letter on Justice and Open Debate” in Harper's

  • What happened with the Poetry Foundation and cancel culture

  • Why “moral clarity” can be dangerous when journalism becomes activism

  • How 2020’s protests shaped national politics and the rise of MAGA

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Thomas shares the story of his parents’ interracial marriage

  • [00:07:00] Growing up in a household full of debate and thick skin

  • [00:09:00] Drafting and publishing the Harper’s letter and its backlash

  • [00:13:00] The Poetry Foundation controversy and institutional capture

  • [00:25:00] Why “moral clarity” fails when we don’t agree on morality

  • [00:39:00] The link between 2020 protests and January 6th

  • [00:45:00] Can Democrats win the center—and what candidates can break through?

  • [00:48:00] The toxic effects of social media on how we see each other

Featured Quotes:

  • "You can't really have social justice without tolerance for viewpoint diversity." – Thomas Chatterton Williams
  • "No one agrees on what’s morally clear. That’s why objectivity still matters." – Thomas Chatterton Williams
  • "People don't talk that way in person. Social media strips us of our ability to imagine someone’s humanity." – Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Cheering Murder, Losing Our Soul: A Call Back to Our Shared Humanity

Monday Aug 04, 2025

Monday Aug 04, 2025

How Did We Get Here? From Outrage to Applauding Atrocity

In this edition, host Corey Nathan offers a timely and deeply personal reflection on a disturbing trend in society: the growing tendency to dehumanize one another. We unpack two tragic incidents that sparked widespread and even celebratory reactions online—mass murders of corporate executives—and explore what these reactions say about our collective soul. Using real-life examples, scriptural references, and philosophical insights, the challenge is to consider how we might reclaim our shared humanity.

What Is Discussed:

  • How online culture enables dehumanization and moral numbness
  • The emotional and spiritual toll of celebrating harm toward others
  • Practical ways to recognize and preserve each other's humanity
  • The concept of Imago Dei and how it applies in daily life, even beyond religious contexts
  • How to model grace and kindness, even in the face of hostility

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:02:00] — Corey introduces the idea of a “vicious cycle” of dehumanization and how it suffocates our soul and hardens our hearts
  • [00:04:00] — The story of Wesley LePatner, CEO of Blackstone Real Estate Income Trust and the horrifying online reactions to her murder
  • [00:08:00] — The “Free Luigi” movement and how the celebration of violence has become normalized
  • [00:13:00] — A personal experience with a vile online comment and the power of grace in response
  • [00:18:00] — Explanation of “online disinhibition” and echo chambers as systemic drivers of dehumanization
  • [00:24:00] — Introduction of Imago Dei and secular philosophies that affirm basic human dignity
  • [00:29:00] — How Corey chose to respond thoughtfully rather than react angrily to an offensive comment
  • [00:34:00] — A call to action: practical steps to disrupt the cycle of dehumanization in our personal lives and broader discourse

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

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✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Fires, ICE, and Faith — Rev. Dr. Matthew Colwell on Immigration, Loss, and Rebuilding Community

Thursday Jul 31, 2025

Thursday Jul 31, 2025

What if ICE visits our church? How are we doing after the LA Fires? And how can the Church help to rebuild and heal?

In this heartfelt episode of Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other, host Corey Nathan welcomes back the Reverend Dr. Matt Colwell, Senior Pastor of Knox Presbyterian Church in Pasadena, CA. A theologian, author, and community leader, Matt opens up about losing his home in the devastating Eaton Fire, his deeply personal approach to immigrant justice, and the evolving role of the Church in times of social and political crisis. A long-time friend and spiritual guide to Corey, Matt shares how Scripture and lived experience converge to shape his ministry and public witness.

What We Discuss:

  • How the Eaton Fire profoundly impacted Pastor Matt and his congregation

  • What it looks like for a church to take a public stand on immigration and ICE enforcement

  • The intersection of Scripture, politics, and social ethics in Matt’s faith journey

  • Why churches are legally preparing for ICE visits—and how they’re doing it

  • The essential role of community, memory, and physical space in recovering from trauma

  • Strategies for engaging in tough conversations across ideological lines

Episode Highlights:
[00:01:00] Matt opens up about life after losing his home in the Eaton Fire
[00:03:00] How experiences in Guatemala and seminary shaped Matt’s understanding of faith and justice
[00:07:00] Corey and Matt explore deriving political views from scripture and the ethical challenge of self-trust
[00:14:00] Book recommendations: Lincoln’s Greatest Speech, The Dearly Beloved, and more
[00:18:00] The emotional aftermath of losing a home and the power of community response
[00:31:00] What the grieving process looks like when you lose not just a house, but identity-defining memories
[00:42:00] ICE visits to churches in Downey prompt new sanctuary policies at Knox Presbyterian
[00:47:00] How the church legally designated private spaces to protect undocumented individuals
[01:03:00] Corey’s candid reflection on preparing emotionally for hard political and religious conversations

Featured Quotes:
"When a pillar is pulled out from under you, it’s powerful to feel like God is present—and the church community is present." – Rev. Dr. Matt Colwell
"I don’t trust myself either. That’s why I need to hear different voices and read Scripture in community." – Rev. Dr. Matt Colwell
"I prepare for difficult conversations by rehearsing a mindset—not what I’ll say, but how I’ll listen." – Corey Nathan
"It’s not just stuff—it’s tied to relationships. Losing those memories feels like losing part of your identity." – Rev. Dr. Matt Colwell

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Misunderstood, Mislabeled, and Still Thinking About It: What to Do About Rumination

Tuesday Jul 29, 2025

Tuesday Jul 29, 2025

Ever get stuck in those mental loops after heated conversations around politics and religion? Let's talk about it!

In this episode, host Corey Nathan opens up about the all-too-common habit of rumination—going over those difficult conversations or moments of conflict again and again. Drawing from a powerful personal story, Corey explores what rumination is, how it differs from healthy reflection, and what we can do about it.

What Is Discussed:

  • The difference between obsessive rumination and productive reflection

  • Practical strategies for self-awareness and emotional regulation

  • How mindfulness and meditation can help manage intrusive thoughts

  • Why labeling others (or being labeled) damages relationships

  • How to shift from argument to connection using curiosity and empathy

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:00:50 – Introducing the topic of rumination and why it matters

  • 00:02:00 – A personal story about a triggering interaction

  • 00:06:00 – “My brain broke”—Corey reflects on emotional fallout

  • 00:10:00 – Inward vs. outward strategies for interrupting rumination

  • 00:13:00 – Self-awareness, triggers, and managing the moment

  • 00:15:00 – Meditation and the practice of “noting”

  • 00:18:00 – Relationship management: choose connection over being right

  • 00:27:00 – Labeling vs. seeing someone in their full humanity

Featured Quotes:

  • “My brain broke. That’s how I describe it—because in that moment, something really triggered me.”
  • “The thought is not my identity. It’s just a thought—and I can allow it to pass.”
  • “If someone insists on labeling me, that’s not a relationship I want. Or at least, I’ll love them from far away.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Finding Purpose, Building Wealth, and Staying Grounded in Uncertain Times with Jorge Meza

Thursday Jul 24, 2025

Thursday Jul 24, 2025

In today's economic and political climate, how can we all keep our heads while everyone else is losing theirs? Talkin' tariffs, budget deficits, the Fed, interest rates, and all kinds of fun stuff!

In this episode of Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other, host Corey Nathan welcomes long-time friend and investment advisor Jorge Meza, CEO of Meza Wealth Management. Jorge shares his inspiring journey—from navigating a family medical crisis to building a boutique investment firm grounded in accessibility and service. The two also dive into today’s economic and political climate, and how we can all keep our heads while everyone else is losing theirs.

What We Discuss:

  • How Jorge’s personal experiences shaped his professional philosophy

  • Why investing is about more than money—it’s about people

  • Practical insights into tariffs, inflation, and the future of AI

  • How to have tough political conversations with respect and grace

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:10] – Jorge shares his daughter Jessica’s remarkable transplant story

  • [00:04:45] – From construction to finance: Jorge’s path to founding Meza Wealth Management

  • [00:07:15] – The immigrant journey that shaped Jorge’s worldview

  • [00:13:00] – How Jorge coaches clients through political and market volatility

  • [00:15:30] – Tariffs, inflation, and AI: What it all means for your money

  • [00:38:15] – Why an independent Federal Reserve matters

  • [00:41:45] – Jorge’s take on how we can disagree without division

Featured Quotes:

“We’re in the business of changing people’s lives. Someone helped me early on, and I’ve never forgotten that.” – Jorge Meza
“Very few people can outwork me. If you work hard, things can happen.” – Jorge Meza
“People are starving for respectful dialogue. We just don’t hear enough from the folks in the middle.” – Jorge Meza
“You see something to be afraid of—I see opportunity.” – Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Mastering the Minefield: How to Spot Escalation, Avoid Traps & Build Better Dialogue

Monday Jul 21, 2025

Monday Jul 21, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan explores how we can navigate difficult conversations around politics and religion with more grace and effectiveness. Drawing on personal experiences, spiritual grounding, and practical techniques, Corey shares what to look out for when a conversation is going sideways and how to communicate better even in the most challenging moments.

What Is Discussed:

  • How to recognize when a conversation is escalating

  • Common communication traps and how to avoid them

  • How to prepare your heart and mind to actively listen

  • What it means to “rehearse” understanding instead of comebacks

  • Why identifying shared values can change the entire conversation

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:00:50] Signs of emotional escalation and how to spot them

  • [00:05:00] A simple tool to slow down: breathing

  • [00:07:00] The mistake of rehearsing a verbal takedown

  • [00:09:30] A better way: Practice being a great listener

  • [00:13:00] Why “shoulding” on people makes things worse

  • [00:15:00] The dangers of mischaracterizing entire groups

  • [00:21:00] Are you really listening—or just waiting to talk?

  • [00:24:30] Avoiding ad hominem attacks and gaslighting

Featured Quotes:

“When the emotion is so heightened that I can no longer think… that’s something to recognize before it gets out of hand.”
“Don’t rehearse the perfect burn. Rehearse listening.”
“You can reverse the neurochemical reaction of anger and fear—and induce the feeling of being heard and loved.”
“If your goal is to cause pain in a conversation, this program isn’t for you.”

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Trump 2.0, John MacArthur, and America's Numbed Conscience: A Special Roundtable with Lori Adams-Brown and William Wright

Thursday Jul 17, 2025

Thursday Jul 17, 2025

Trump 2.0 - 6 months in. How's it going? (And other light comedy...)

In this milestone 300th episode, Corey is joined by two insightful friends: Lori Adams-Brown, host of A World of Difference podcast, and William Wright, co-host of the Faithful Politics podcast. Together, they reflect on six months of the Trump 2.0 administration, rising Christian nationalism, immigration policy impacts, and the legacy of influential evangelical leaders. It’s a deep, wide-ranging, and thought-provoking roundtable about our politics, our faith, and how we can still find hope and human connection across differences.

What We Discuss:

  • The real-life impacts of recent immigration policies

  • What’s fueling political tribalism and conspiracy culture

  • How trauma can influence dogmatism in both politics and religion

  • A candid look at John MacArthur’s controversial legacy

  • How we can better communicate across ideological divides

Episode Highlights:
• [00:01:00] Celebrating episode 300 with Lori and Will
• [00:02:00] Lori shares real stories of deportation affecting families in California
• [00:05:00] Corey’s church discusses ICE raid response policy
• [00:08:00] Will details surprising legal shifts and executive orders
• [00:13:00] Backlash over Chip and Joanna Gaines and identity politics
• [00:23:00] How polarization and pain are intertwined
• [00:39:00] Where can we still find hope, even now?
• [00:51:00] Reflecting on John MacArthur’s impact and abuse cover-ups
• [01:03:00] How to talk politics and religion without killing each other

Featured Quotes:
“Dogmatism is often a response to trauma.” — Lori Adams-Brown
“Bad people can sometimes do things that help good people.” — William Wright
“You don’t have a depression issue, you have a sin issue — that’s what they told me. And that was crushing.” — Corey Nathan
“It’s not about what you think, it’s about who you hate. That’s how people are being politically labeled now.” — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:
• Faithful Politics Podcast – faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
• A World of Difference Podcast – www.loriadamsbrown.com/podcast
• Book: White Evangelical Racism by Anthea Butler - uncpress.org/book/9781469681511/white-evangelical-racism-second-edition/

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Lori is 

Will is 

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The Skipper's Moral Compass: A Navy SEAL Commander on Ethical Leadership & Navigating Today's Political Waters

Monday Jul 14, 2025

Monday Jul 14, 2025

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Roger Herbert—retired Navy Captain, former SEAL commander, professor of ethics, and distinguished academic. Dr. Herbert’s career spans from leading undersea special operations to teaching future naval officers at the U.S. Naval Academy. We explore Dr. Herbert's remarkable journey marked by leadership, ethics, and profound moral challenges. Dr. Herbert shares stories of combat, personal transformation, and the vital importance of principled leadership—even under the most extreme conditions.

---

CORRECTION: Roger has advised me that he misspoke when he described a SEAL operation in Anbar Province.  Operation Redwings, the 2005 SEAL reconnaissance mission that inspired the book/movie "Lone Survivor," took place in Afghanistan's Kunar Province.  (Anbar is a province in Iraq.) 

---

What We Discuss:

* The intense process of becoming and leading Navy SEALs

* How war can spark deep ethical reflection and personal evolution

* What moral leadership looks like in combat zones—and classrooms

* Why teaching ethics to future military leaders is more important than ever

* How pivotal life decisions can stem from unexpected, even humorous, moments

---

Featured Quotes:

  • “The secret sauce of being a SEAL is learning how far you can really go—and it’s always further than you think.” – Dr. Roger Herbert
  • “We push candidates to what they *think* is their limit… and then some crazy few keep going. That’s where we find the SEALs.”
  • “Ethics isn’t just theory—it’s what helps you come home with honor.”
  • “We don’t swear loyalty to a person. We swear to a document. That’s the power of the U.S. Constitution.”

---

Resources Mentioned:

* Dr. Roger Herbert’s Substack - rogerherbert.substack.com

* The Ethics of Special Ops: Raids, Recoveries, Reconnaissance, and Rebels - https://www.amazon.com/Ethics-Special-Ops-Recoveries-Reconnaissance-ebook/dp/B0CLGJK8R6?ref_=ast_author_dp&th=1&psc=1

* Ethics at War: How Should Military Personnel Make Ethical Decisions? - https://www.amazon.com/Ethics-War-Military-Personnel-Decisions-ebook/dp/B0CKFGDXQY?ref_=ast_author_dp&th=1&psc=1

---

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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It's @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

---

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Do You Want To Be Right Or The Relationship? Why We Insist on Being Right in Politics & Beyond

Thursday Jul 10, 2025

Thursday Jul 10, 2025

In this solo episode, host Corey Nathan shares a personal story that explores a fundamental question many of us face in political and relational discourse: “Do you want to be right, or do you want the relationship?” Prompted by a real-life interaction following his attendance at a local rally, Corey examines how we navigate our convictions, the costs of being “right,” and the cognitive, identity-based, and psychological roots that underlie our desire to win arguments—especially at the expense of connection. 

What Is Discussed:

  • The real story behind a tense political exchange among friends.

  • The importance of prioritizing relationships over ideological victory.

  • Key psychological and sociological reasons why people insist on being right.

  • How identity, ego, and group affiliation shape our perceptions in political dialogue.

  • Thoughtful strategies to promote civil discourse, even across ideological lines.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:03:00] Corey describes the No Kings Rally in Santa Clarita and his motivation for attending.

  • [00:05:00] A group text spirals into conflict after a friend posts a divisive meme about Democrats.

  • [00:07:00] Corey challenges the assumptions being made and asserts his conservative identity.

  • [00:10:00] The text conversation intensifies—Corey confronts the damaging generalizations.

  • [00:13:00] He reflects on the absence of actual conversation and the importance of listening.

  • [00:20:00] Corey shares research on cognitive biases like confirmation bias and bandwagon effect.

  • [00:24:00] A powerful explanation of identity protective cognition and how it affects discourse.

  • [00:29:00] The psychological roots of being “right”: ego, fear, insecurity, and narcissism.

  • [00:31:00] A parable of two billy goats illustrates the cost of refusing to give ground.

Featured Quotes:
“Do you want to be right, or do you want the relationship?”
“The endeavor that I care about is people exercising their First Amendment rights.”
“If we were actually talking, you'd know this isn't even in my top 50 concerns.”
“We don’t need to diminish others to hold our convictions.”

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

It's @coreysnathan on...

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Thank you for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

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Mike Madrid on the Latino Electorate, Trump's Win in 2024 and What It Means for the Soul of America

Monday Jul 07, 2025

Monday Jul 07, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes back political consultant, author, and Substack contributor Mike Madrid. A renowned expert on Latino voters and co-founder of the Lincoln Project, Mike brings his profound insights on American politics, identity, and democracy. Together, Corey and Mike explore deeply personal stories, historical context, and present-day political dynamics, all while weaving in the emotional fabric that connects generations and communities.

What We Discuss:

  • The significance of personal and familial stories in shaping political perspective

  • How Latino voters are reshaping American democracy

  • The danger of authoritarian tendencies in U.S. governance

  • Economic populism across ideological divides

  • The importance of understanding and communicating with working-class communities

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:04:00] Mike Madrid shares a personal story of grief and connection through a pilgrimage to Madrid, New Mexico

  • [00:08:00] Baseball as a bridge between generations and its deeper cultural significance

  • [00:14:00] Inhumane immigration enforcement and its implications on American identity

  • [00:22:00] A discussion on whether America is at a turning point for its soul and values

  • [00:33:00] Vertical balance of power: Newsom vs. federal overreach in L.A. protests

  • [00:45:00] Latino voters' top concerns: economy, housing, and healthcare

  • [00:53:00] Economic populism through Ruben Gallego and Zoran Mamdani's campaigns

  • [01:03:00] How to talk about politics and religion without killin' each other

Featured Quotes:

  • "Sometimes the stories we tell ourselves matter more than the facts we can verify." – Mike Madrid

  • "This is our American story now. This is who we are... and if we're not speaking out, then we are individually complicit in it." – Mike Madrid

  • "These are the moments when character is defined." – Mike Madrid

  • "The best way to talk about politics and religion is to not talk about it through the lens of politics and religion." – Mike Madrid

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

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(ICYMI) Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde on Faith, Politics, and Ethical Conversations in a Polarized Nation

Thursday Jul 03, 2025

Thursday Jul 03, 2025

This was such a refreshing conversation with Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde. We recorded it just after she delivered the homily at the National Cathedral the day after the inauguration. Bishop Budde's candor, winsomeness and wisdom shines through in all circumstances - whether it's before a worldwide audience or upon earnest reflection of the impact of her ministry. And there's something healing in all of this. So it's certainly worth revisiting our discussion going into this national holiday weekend. Enjoy...

 

In this timely edition of Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other, host Corey Nathan welcomes Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, D.C., and the Washington National Cathedral. Bishop Budde is a well-respected spiritual leader who has appeared on PBS NewsHour, Meet the Press, Good Morning America, and The Today Show.

The conversation dives into Bishop Budde’s faith journey, her reflections on political and social issues, and her approach to leading with grace and courage in divisive times. The discussion also touches on the controversy surrounding her sermon and how she directly addressed Donald Trump at the National Cathedral following the 2025 presidential inauguration.

What We Discuss

  • Bishop Budde’s personal faith journey, from her early religious experiences to her leadership in the Episcopal Church.
  • The challenges of navigating faith, politics, and national unity in today’s polarized climate.
  • How to extend grace and practice mercy even in the face of criticism.
  • The role of the church in advocating for social justice, particularly regarding immigration and LGBTQ+ rights.
  • Strategies for engaging in difficult conversations while maintaining mutual respect.

Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] – Introduction to the episode and guest, Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde.

[00:02:00] – Bishop Budde shares her faith journey and the struggles she faced reconciling different religious influences.

[00:10:00] – The tension between faith and exclusivity: why some versions of Christianity felt limiting to her.

[00:15:00] – The discipline of grace: choosing to respond with compassion rather than anger, even when faced with opposition.

[00:26:00] – Bishop Budde’s response to the 2025 presidential inauguration sermon controversy and the importance of speaking truth with love.

[00:38:00] – Handling criticism and maintaining a sense of personal and spiritual balance.

[00:52:00] – Finding hope in uncertain times: How we can cultivate a spirit of resilience and faith amid societal challenges.

[00:55:00] – The importance of dialogue: How to foster better conversations across political and religious differences.

[01:03:00] – Final thoughts and how to follow Bishop Budde’s work.

Featured Quotes

"If it’s not about love, it’s not about God." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"The discipline of grace is a practice, not a gift. It’s about choosing to respond with love even when it’s difficult." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"To be raised from the dead—whatever that means in our own lives—requires our consent to live again, to have our hearts broken again, and to take on all of life again." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

"We need to ask ourselves: When was the last time I changed my mind? True dialogue requires being open to seeing the world differently." – Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde

Resources Mentioned

📣 Call to Action

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Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde:

  • Episcopal Church of Washington: Website

 

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Faith, Freedom, and the Fight for the 1st Amendment: Daniel Mach of the ACLU on Kennedy v. Bremerton, Religious Charter Schools, and Resisting Trump-Era Overreach

Monday Jun 30, 2025

Monday Jun 30, 2025

In this timely episode of "Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other," host Corey Nathan speaks with Professor Daniel Mach, Director of the ACLU Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief and adjunct professor of law at the George Washington University Law School. They explore the complexities of First Amendment rights, the historical Scopes Trial, and the fine line between religious freedom and government endorsement of religion.

What We Discuss:

  • How Daniel Mach’s passion for First Amendment law began.

  • The ACLU’s approach to defending speech across ideological lines.

  • Key legal principles behind landmark cases like Kennedy v. Bremerton.

  • The modern-day impact of church-state separation rulings.

  • The importance of defending civil liberties regardless of popularity.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Dan’s origin story, sparked by a high school paper on the Scopes Trial.

  • [00:05:00] ACLU’s surprising position in the Boston Christian flag case.

  • [00:09:00] The real facts behind Kennedy v. Bremerton School District.

  • [00:23:00] Historical insight into the Scopes Trial and why it still matters.

  • [00:38:00] Breakdown of the opt-out debate in Mahmoud v. Montgomery County.

  • [00:48:00] Can a Catholic public school exist? Oklahoma says maybe.

  • [00:56:00] Concerns about threats to the rule of law.

  • [01:00:00] How to speak across ideological divides and why it matters.

Featured Quotes:
"Rights for all — the right to speak even hateful things — triggered something in my mind where I thought, yeah, that's the way to go." – Daniel Mach
"If the rules only protect people you like, then those rules are not rules at all." – Daniel Mach
"Part of religious liberty is keeping religion and government separate — not just to protect government, but to protect religion." – Daniel Mach

Resources Mentioned:
ACLU: https://www.aclu.org
Kennedy v. Bremerton: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2021/21-418
Scopes Trial History: https://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties/scopes-trial
Mahmoud v. Montgomery County: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-297_4f14.pdf
Oklahoma Catholic Charter School Ruling: https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/05/split-supreme-court-blocks-first-religious-charter-school-in-oklahoma/

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
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Transforming Campaigns: Mike Nellis Discusses Political and Fundraising Strategies to Combat Anti-Democratic Threats

Wednesday Jun 25, 2025

Wednesday Jun 25, 2025

In this episode, we're joined by Mike Nellis, founder of Authentic and executive chairman of QUILLER. Mike shares his journey from early political engagement to founding a values-driven digital agency and a pioneering AI platform. He opens up about overcoming personal mental health challenges and emphasizes the importance of empathy, leadership, and responsive government.

What We Discuss:

  • How Mike Nellis turned a toxic workplace experience into a successful values-based company.

  • Why mental health and workplace culture are core pillars of Mike’s leadership.

  • The strategic role of AI in political campaigns and how it’s changing the game.

  • Insights on effective fundraising, the current political climate, and what the Democratic Party needs to do differently.

Episode Highlights:

  • 01:00 – Mike’s introduction and political fundraising background

  • 02:00 – Leaving a toxic workplace and founding Authentic

  • 04:00 – Mike’s personal journey through mental health and weight loss

  • 07:00 – His daily mental health “toolkit”

  • 12:00 – From Republican household to Obama rally

  • 19:00 – Mike’s evolving political values and client strategies

  • 27:00 – Firsthand experience confronting political abuse of power

  • 35:00 – Diagnosing what went wrong in the 2024 election

  • 48:00 – Navigating AI ethics and strategy

  • 53:00 – Endless Urgency: Mike’s life motto and Substack

Featured Quotes:
“Every day, you should do something for your mind, your body, and your spirit.” – Mike Nellis
“Politics is a game of addition, not subtraction.” – Mike Nellis
“I want a government that shows up when people need it—and then gets out of the way.” – Mike Nellis

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
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Vote Common Good: Pastor Doug Pagitt on the Emergent Church and "Exit Ramps" for Engaging Faith Voters

Monday Jun 23, 2025

Monday Jun 23, 2025

In this episode, Corey Nathan is joined by Pastor Doug Pagitt, Executive Director of Vote Common Good. Doug shares his remarkable journey from a non-religious upbringing to becoming a prominent voice in progressive evangelicalism. They discuss how his background in sociology and theology shapes his view of faith, culture, and politics, and how those insights drive his current work helping religious voters engage civically with integrity and hope.

What We Discuss:

  • How Doug Pagitt came to faith and ministry outside traditional church upbringing

  • What the Emergent Church is and why it matters

  • How anthropology influences theology

  • What motivated Pastor Doug to start Vote Common Good

  • How Democrats can meaningfully engage religious voters

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Introduction to Doug’s background and Vote Common Good

  • [00:03:00] Doug’s faith story and early questions about Christianity

  • [00:08:00] Embracing scripture through open interpretation

  • [00:17:00] The Emergent Church explained

  • [00:30:00] Why Vote Common Good was founded

  • [00:43:00] Surprising insights from their faith voter polling

  • [00:54:00] Six words to win back religious voters

  • [01:02:00] Where Democrats often miss the mark

Featured Quotes:

  • “I didn’t have to unlearn a Sunday school version of Christianity. I got to take Jesus at face value.” 

  • “We’re not asking candidates to be Christians. We’re asking them to like Christians.” 

  • “The difference between being required and being invited makes all the difference.”

  • “Human beings organize our lives around patterns. The danger is when we mistake those patterns for the divine.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
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Us vs. Them: Practical Ways to Counter the Polarization That's Killing Us

Thursday Jun 19, 2025

Thursday Jun 19, 2025

In this solo episode, host Corey Nathan explores how the "us vs. them" mindset is damaging our democracy and personal relationships. Sharing powerful stories and reflections, Corey examines how this mentality can escalate from figurative harm to literal violence—and what we can do to stop it.

What Is Discussed:

  • How to recognize and avoid “us vs. them” thinking

  • Why specificity matters more than generalizations

  • How to reframe conversations to foster understanding

  • When it’s best to disengage from toxic interactions

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] The real-life consequences of political tribalism

  • [00:03:00] How a quote from the Declaration of Independence sparked online hostility

  • [00:15:00] Why generalizing leads to vilification

  • [00:21:00] Reactions to the peaceful “No Kings” rally

  • [00:28:00] How to name and address divisive rhetoric

  • [00:34:00] When it’s healthier to walk away

Featured Quotes:

  • "Think specifically, not generally."
  • "Shift our disposition from facing off to side by side."
  • "Sometimes, you just gotta know when to walk away."

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
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Muster Your Courage & Heal Our Civic Square with Liz Joyner, Founder and President of The Village Square

Monday Jun 16, 2025

Monday Jun 16, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes Liz Joyner, founder and president of The Village Square, a civic organization dedicated to bridging divides and fostering dialogue across political and cultural lines. Liz shares the story behind founding The Village Square, her passion for preserving democratic values, and her experience navigating political polarization with grace, humor, and tenacity. As dear friends and collaborators, Corey and Liz offer listeners a heartfelt and insightful conversation about the importance of disagreement, empathy, and genuine connection.

What You Will Learn:

  • How Liz Joyner built The Village Square to combat political divisiveness

  • The power of human connection and shared experiences in fostering civic trust

  • Key strategies for having meaningful conversations across ideological divides

  • Why now is a pivotal moment for preserving democracy and civil discourse

  • How personal stories and experiences shape our political views and actions

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Introduction to Liz Joyner and her work with The Village Square
  • [00:06:00] Reflecting on her family’s military background and public service
  • [00:13:00] The key question: How can we engage across our differences?
  • [00:22:00] The role of The Village Square’s God Squad in promoting interfaith dialogue
  • [00:31:00] The psychological roots of tribalism and political polarization
  • [00:50:00] The threat to public humanities and the importance of civic institutions
  • [01:00:00] Liz’s favorite spot in D.C. and its symbolic value for democracy

Featured Quotes:

  • “We just need to do it. Reach out. Make the call. Share a meal. Be human.”

  • “When we see others up close, we see their good intentions. That’s where empathy begins.”

  • “Disagreement, done well, is the genius behind our democracy.”

  • “The genius of our system is that it relies on heterogeneity—on us learning from each other.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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Kamy Akhavan on What's Actually Happening in Los Angeles, the Root Causes, and Bridging Our Divides

Friday Jun 13, 2025

Friday Jun 13, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes Kamy Akhavan, Executive Director at the USC Dornsife Center for the Political Future and former CEO of ProCon.org. Kamy shares his extraordinary journey from war-torn Iran to becoming a champion of civil discourse and political bridge-building in the United States. 

What We Discuss:

  • Kamy’s powerful immigration story and personal connection to today’s immigration challenges

  • What's actually happening in Los Angeles vs what many news programs are showing

  • How debate and listening helped shape Kamy’s open-minded leadership

  • The mission of USC’s Center for the Political Future and its bipartisan impact

  • The root causes of polarization and how we can counteract them

  • Why respect, listening, and humility are foundational for meaningful dialogue

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Kamy’s homage to Parliament Funkadelic and Sly Stone

  • [00:06:00] Living through war in Iran and escaping with his family

  • [00:14:00] Adjusting to poverty in Louisiana and finding strength in education

  • [00:18:00] Discovering a passion for political discourse through debate

  • [00:27:00] Leaving management consulting to lead ProCon.org

  • [00:30:00] Kamy's role at USC’s Center for the Political Future

  • [00:39:00] Building a culture where tough conversations can happen respectfully

  • [00:55:00] A deeper look into today’s immigration debates and polarization

Featured Quotes:
"Every person you meet knows more than you do about something. If you approach with humility, every conversation becomes a chance to learn." — Kamy Akhavan
"If you really want to be a powerful advocate for your cause, the best tool you have isn’t your mouth—it’s your ears." — Kamy Akhavan
"We all inherit democracy. And that inheritance is a gift many have died for." — Kamy Akhavan

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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Andrew Heaton: Tribalism Is Dumb – Why We're Hardwired for Division & How to Cope

Tuesday Jun 10, 2025

Tuesday Jun 10, 2025

In this insightful and often humorous episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes political satirist, author, and podcast host Andrew Heaton for a wide-ranging conversation about his latest book, Tribalism Is Dumb. Heaton, known for his podcast The Political Orphanage, brings his signature blend of wit, intellect, and candor to explore why politics has become so viciously tribal—and how we can fix it. Drawing from personal stories, deep research, and evolutionary psychology, Heaton discusses the roots of human division, the impact of media and technology, and the path to a more thoughtful public discourse.

What We Discuss:

  • Why tribalism is hardwired into human nature—and how it gets misapplied in modern politics

  • How Heaton’s upbringing influenced his commitment to civility and intellectual rigor

  • The role of media, social media, and political leadership in fostering division

  • Practical tools for having productive, respectful political conversations

  • What we can do—personally and societally—to resist toxic partisanship

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Intro to Andrew Heaton and his new book

  • [00:02:30] The story behind the dedication to Heaton’s father

  • [00:06:45] Heaton’s early political influences

  • [00:10:15] How Heaton preps for his many podcasts

  • [00:21:00] The evolutionary roots of tribalism

  • [00:34:00] Protestant vs. Catholic soccer rivalry in Scotland

  • [00:36:30] What changed in the last few decades

  • [00:55:00] Tools for better political conversations

Featured Quotes:

"There are lots of people that we share this country with that are good and intelligent people. The fact that we disagree with them is not a negation of their humanity." – Andrew Heaton
"The need for an enemy precipitates the existence of the enemy." – Andrew Heaton
"Tribalism is not just about community. It’s about the reflexive urge to find a ‘them’ to define the ‘us.’" – Andrew Heaton
"I just try to remember: we’re not arguing about whether you're a good person. I already believe you are." – Andrew Heaton

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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Dialogue Killers Revealed: Beat Ad Hominem & Proxies to Reclaim Civil Political Talk

Saturday Jun 07, 2025

Saturday Jun 07, 2025

In this edition, host Corey Nathan dives into two behaviors that shut down meaningful dialogue before it even starts: ad hominem attacks and treating individuals as proxies for groups. Drawing from real-life interactions and candid personal stories, Corey illustrates why civil discourse matters now more than ever.

What Is Discussed:

  • Why personal attacks destroy productive dialogue

  • How assuming people represent an entire group harms mutual understanding

  • Strategies for better conversations: passive, defensive, and proactive

  • Why labels and assumptions often miss the mark

  • The power of treating others as individuals with unique stories

Episode Highlights:

  • 1:00 – Defining the two dialogue killers: ad hominem and proxy labeling

  • 2:00 – A local mayor faces national-level hostility in small-town politics

  • 4:00 – A neighborly disagreement about family farms shows how it can be done right

  • 5:00 – Corey’s impassioned reaction to toxic comments and attacks

  • 10:00 – When people are reduced to stand-ins for political ideologies

  • 14:00 – Facebook comments spiral as users resort to vilifying each other

  • 19:00 – Setting realistic expectations when engaging across divides

  • 27:00 – “I will not defend positions I don’t hold”—drawing healthy boundaries

  • 30:00 – Lessons from the fight for marriage equality: changing hearts through human connection

  • 33:00 – Passive, defensive, and proactive strategies to communicate better

Featured Quotes:

  • “People are people—not proxies...”

  • “I will not defend positions that I don’t hold.”

  • “You’re not talking to ‘them,’ you’re talking to me.”

  • “Go talk some politics and religion with gentleness and respect.”

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
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✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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Bishop Mary D. Glasspool, Trailblazing Leader in the Episcopal Church, on Challenging Tradition and Navigating Faith

Monday Jun 02, 2025

Monday Jun 02, 2025

In this inspiring episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes Bishop Mary D. Glasspool, a pioneering leader in the Episcopal Church and the first openly lesbian woman to be consecrated as a bishop in the Anglican Communion. Since 2016, she has served as Assistant Bishop in the Episcopal Diocese of New York. Bishop Mary shares her personal journey of faith, identity, leadership, and inclusion, offering insights into navigating the intersections of religion, politics, and justice.

What We Discuss:

  • Bishop Mary’s journey as a trailblazer in the Episcopal Church

  • How her faith and identity evolved in tandem

  • What the Philadelphia 11 meant to her and the church

  • Navigating hard conversations across deep differences

  • What gives her hope for the future of the church and the world

Episode Highlights:

  • 01:00 – Corey introduces Bishop Mary and her groundbreaking role

  • 06:00 – Growing up in a multigenerational Episcopal family

  • 17:00 – The impact of the Philadelphia 11 and her call to ministry

  • 27:00 – Coming out and confronting institutional theology

  • 34:00 – Stories of ministry, mentorship, and pioneering women

  • 43:00 – Navigating political division in local churches

  • 50:00 – Her retirement plans and what’s next

  • 1:02:00 – On non-binary thinking, listening deeply, and collaboration

Featured Quotes:

“We can do this. It is possible to talk politics and religion without killing each other.”
“The best way to be ecumenical is to be deeply rooted and grounded in your own faith.”
“Diversity is a strength… It can help us grow and become stronger as human beings.”
“We need to allow for silence. We need to listen.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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Reasoned Humility: Pastor David Hegg on Theology, Differences, and Engaging Culture

Thursday May 29, 2025

Thursday May 29, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan is joined by Pastor David Hegg, Senior Pastor at Grace Baptist Church in Santa Clarita, CA. With decades of experience, a master’s in theology, and a doctorate in preaching, Pastor Hegg shares his unique journey into ministry, his thoughts on biblical teaching, and how Christians can faithfully navigate today’s cultural and political landscape.

What We Discuss:

  • How Pastor Hegg's early struggles shaped his path in ministry

  • The importance of preaching Scripture as it was originally written

  • A biblical approach to Christian leadership and cultural engagement

  • Insights into the role of conscience in political decision-making

  • Why “reasoned humility” is essential for healthy public discourse

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:04:00 – From mowing the church lawn to pastoring a large congregation

  • 00:10:00 – Disputes over doctrine: seminary conflict and church governance

  • 00:19:00 – Faith vs. science: Genesis, creationism, and biblical authority

  • 00:25:00 – Why many pastors feel exhausted, and how to sustain ministry

  • 00:30:00 – Handling political pressure and cultural division during COVID

  • 00:36:00 – Engaging LGBTQ+ individuals with truth and grace

  • 00:43:00 – What it means to “withdraw” from politics without disengaging

  • 00:54:00 – Preview of Pastor Hegg’s upcoming books and a theological novel

Featured Quotes:

“What God has for us is always best for us.” – Pastor David Hegg
“We must hold our beliefs with reasoned humility.”
“You can’t come to any text without a framework, but you must be willing to reform that framework based on Scripture.”
“We don’t throw darts—we meet people where they are and walk with them.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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(ICYMI) Sussing out Excellent Journalism from All the Crap with Julie Mason, SiriusXM Radio Host and Former White House Reporter

Monday May 26, 2025

Monday May 26, 2025

“You’ve got to be willing to kick your sources right in the balls if necessary, even if they’re your friends.”

Julie Mason came up the ranks at regional newspapers before becoming a White House reporter. On her SiriusXM radio show, you can tell how much she loves and champions good reporters and reveres excellent journalism. And that's one of the many reasons we love Julie Mason! So we're re-booting our most recent conversation with Julie from earlier this year...

 

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with Julie Mason, renowned journalist and host of The Julie Mason Show on SiriusXM’s POTUS channel. Julie brings decades of experience in journalism, spanning local, state, and national politics, and shares her sharp insights on the evolving media landscape, political discourse, and the state of journalism today.

What We Discuss:

  1. The evolving role of journalists in a polarized media environment.
  2. How to navigate news consumption and discern credible sources.
  3. Insights into the challenges of covering politicians and divisive topics.
  4. The growing intersection between social media platforms and journalism.
  5. Why re-engaging with quality news content is critical to democracy.
  6. Mike Pence: The King of Hilarity... Wait. WHAT?!?! No, really

Episode Highlights:

  1. [00:00:00] – Corey welcomes Julie back to the podcast after four years and reflects on her journey in journalism, from print reporting to hosting her SiriusXM show.
  2. [00:09:00] – Julie explains how she transitioned from print to radio and why she took the leap into the unfamiliar world of broadcasting.
  3. [00:20:00] – The challenges of modern journalism: Julie addresses disinformation, lies in politics, and why reporters must focus on stories that truly impact people’s lives.
  4. [00:27:00] – A discussion on how journalism is evolving to meet the needs of a fatigued audience, from long-form storytelling to true crime podcasts.
  5. [00:40:00] – Julie emphasizes the importance of journalists remaining stoic and professional, especially during major historical events like January 6th.
  6. [00:47:00] – Corey and Julie explore ways to have constructive conversations with people across ideological divides, drawing inspiration from bipartisan efforts in Congress.
  7. [00:55:00] – Julie’s call to action: Why supporting quality journalism through subscriptions and active engagement matters more than ever.

Featured Quotes:

  • “You’ve got to be willing to kick your sources right in the balls if necessary, even if they’re your friends.”
  • “Politician lied is not really the story—focus on what impacts people’s lives.”
  • “To have meaningful conversations, you have to put down your weapons and see the humanity in the other person.”

Resources Mentioned:

  1. The Julie Mason Show on SiriusXM’s POTUS Channel – www.siriusxm.com/channels/potus-politics 
  2. Substack Recommendations:
  3. Dirty John Podcast – Listen Here

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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@julesdc

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ICYMI - Wajahat Ali: Navigating Chaos and Divisiveness with Hope and Humanity

Thursday May 22, 2025

Thursday May 22, 2025

A lot's happened already this year. So it's worth re-setting this conversation with friend of the pod, Wajahat Ali, from earlier this year...

 

When there's such chaos amd divisiveness all around us, what can we do to cultivate a sense of hope and humanity?

 

In this episode, we welcome back Wajahat Ali, celebrated writer, editor of The Left Hook Substack, co-host of Democracy-ish Podcast, and author. Known for his humor and insight, Waj brings his unique perspective as a father, storyteller, and political commentator to discuss navigating the tumultuous political and social landscape of 2025. Together, Corey and Wajahat dive deep into themes of decency, empathy, and how to cultivate hope amid chaos.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:02:00] Wajahat muses about earning a "Five Timer Club" t-shirt.
  • [00:04:00] Discussion on the California wildfires and the politicization of natural disasters.
  • [00:06:00] Wajahat analyzes the blame game targeting DEI initiatives in crisis situations.
  • [00:09:00] Corey and Wajahat explore the role of empathy and decency in politics.
  • [00:11:00] Wajahat reflects on hope during his daughter’s cancer journey and how that translates to political resilience.
  • [00:16:00] Star Wars analogy: How everyday people (the "Ewoks") can fight against authoritarianism.
  • [00:22:00] A candid discussion on America's historical resistance to progress and how that impacts the current political climate.
  • [00:35:00] The importance of rest and joy in sustaining activism and engagement.
  • [00:54:00] Wajahat’s advice on engaging with people across ideological divides—when to plant seeds of change and when to walk away.

Featured Quotes:

  • "Hope is optimism with action. It's believing in a better story but doing your part to get there." – Wajahat Ali
  • "You can't save everyone. The caravan must move forward, but the doors remain open." – Wajahat Ali
  • "We could have been so much better, and we chose this." – Wajahat Ali
  • "One conversation with one person can create a ripple effect. Even a one-degree shift can matter." – Corey Nathan

 

How to find Waj:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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Standing with Ukraine: Alexander Vindman on U.S. Foreign Policy, Putin’s Threat, and the Folly of Trumpism

Sunday May 18, 2025

Sunday May 18, 2025

In this episode, we welcome back Dr. Alexander Vindman—retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel and former Director for European Affairs on the White House National Security Council. Known for his key role in the first Trump impeachment and his deep expertise in Eastern European affairs, Vindman returns to discuss his latest book, The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine. The conversation dives into the geopolitical stakes of the ongoing war in Ukraine, U.S. foreign policy across administrations, and the importance of civic responsibility in the face of authoritarianism.

What We Discuss:

  • Why U.S. administrations consistently misunderstood Russia and Ukraine.

  • The concept of “Neo-Idealism” and its value in foreign policy.

  • How family history and personal experience shaped Vindman’s worldview.

  • The political realities facing Ukraine and the U.S. in a post-Trump world.

  • The role of values in sustaining democratic institutions.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:01:00] Introduction to Alexander Vindman and his background.

  • [00:04:30] Alex's twin brother Eugene Vindman’s transition to Congress and bipartisan cooperation.

  • [00:17:00] Reconnecting with family in Ukraine and the impact of history.

  • [00:25:00] The thousand-year struggle for Ukrainian sovereignty.

  • [00:38:00] Why equating Russia with Cold War power is misguided.

  • [00:44:30] Vindman defines “Neo-Idealism” and its global implications.

  • [01:00:00] The danger of Trumpism and dismantling of democratic norms.

  • [01:07:00] How we can engage across political and cultural divides.

Featured Quotes:

“Russia, absent Ukraine, ceases to be an empire. With Ukraine, it becomes one.” – Alexander Vindman
“Neo-Idealism is about tethering our interests to our values and committing to them over the long term.” – Alexander Vindman
“We succumbed to misplaced hopes and fears. We thought if we treated Russia as a partner, it would behave like one.” – Alexander Vindman
“You can find common ground by talking about family. That’s where our shared concerns lie.” – Alexander Vindman

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Stop Toxic Partisanship (Doing Our Part): Finding Humanity in Polarized Politics & Religion

Thursday May 15, 2025

Thursday May 15, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reflects on a pivotal shift in direction for the podcast. The solo episodes of “Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other” will be moving toward a more practical focus—answering the question of how we engage in tough conversations about politics and religion in more productive, neighborly, human ways. Drawing from years of interviews, personal experiences, and lively social media debates, Corey opens up about the challenges and tools needed to bridge our deepest divides.

What's Discussed:

  • Why Corey is focusing more on how we talk about politics and religion, not just what we talk about

  • The role of "epistemic bubbles" and "informational universes" in shaping our perspectives

  • Tools and strategies for engaging across political and religious differences

  • How grace, curiosity, and relationship-building can change the tone of even the toughest conversations

  • Real-life examples from Corey’s online and offline experiences—including some Facebook showdowns!

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:02:00] Corey announces a new focus on practical tools for civil dialogue

  • [00:06:00] The concept of “epistemic ecosystems” and how they isolate us

  • [00:10:00] Why you can’t “convert” someone in one conversation—but you can plant seeds

  • [00:13:00] Mike Madrid: “Effective communication across bubbles requires more than simply correcting facts...”

  • [00:17:00] A quote from the Constitution sparks a wild Facebook debate

  • [00:24:00] From “literate idiots” to neighbors with nuance—Corey breaks down who shows up online

  • [00:32:00] How to actively listen, lead with curiosity, and find the serious point in a noisy thread

  • [00:45:00] Tips on when to pick your spot, take it offline, or simply walk away

Featured Quotes:

  • “Sometimes you can’t teach someone a new language—but you can give them a few new words.”
  • “Give yourself grace. You’re going to mess it up. But keep showing up.”
  • “Effective communication across bubbles requires more than simply correcting facts. It demands engaging underlying values and concerns.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com
✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Serene Jones on Grace, Grit, and God: How Faith Can Heal a Fractured Democracy

Monday May 12, 2025

Monday May 12, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan speaks with Rev. Dr. Serene Jones, President of Union Theological Seminary. As the first woman to lead the historic 180-year-old institution, Dr. Jones brings deep insight to the intersection of theology, justice, and public life. Together, they explore how Christian faith can guide us through trauma, division, and democracy’s challenges, while sharing stories of growing up in faith and creating space for conversations across political and religious divides.

What We Discuss:

  • How Serene Jones’ upbringing shaped her theological lens

  • What theology has to do with democracy and justice

  • Why questions are a sign of faith, not doubt

  • The importance of building bridges, even when no one’s building from the other side

  • How seminaries are evolving to meet the needs of a changing world

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:03:00] A unique faith upbringing in the Disciples of Christ tradition

  • [00:07:00] Church as a place of learning about democracy, justice, and real life

  • [00:13:00] The message of Micah 4 and how it resonates with global conflict today

  • [00:27:00] The role of theology in shaping public ethics and spiritual resilience

  • [00:39:00] Navigating campus dialogue during protests and unrest

  • [00:44:00] Three calls for progressive communities in red states

  • [00:51:00] Addressing collective and generational trauma through faith

  • [00:53:00] Asking: What would Jesus do—really?

Featured Quotes:

“Faith that’s not equipped to deal with the big questions of life is not a faith worth its weight.”
“If we are not building bridges, there’s no one there to catch people when they fall.”
“Theology is not just an abstraction. It’s an action. It’s a way of living in the world.”
“The crisis in our nation is a massive spiritual crisis—for all of us.”

Resources Mentioned:
Union Theological Seminary – utsnyc.edu
Call It Grace by Serene Jones – www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/2146640/serene-jones/

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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From the Boardroom to Town Hall: Leading with Civility with Mayor Lisa Willey Knierim

Thursday May 08, 2025

Thursday May 08, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with Lisa Willey Knierim—Mayor of Cranbury Township, NJ, President of 1880 Hospitality, and high school pal. Lisa shares powerful insights into the realities of small-town governance, the impact of state housing mandates, and the ripple effects of national political discourse. From boardrooms to township meetings, she brings candor, civility, and a healthy dose of humor to the conversation.

What We Discuss:

  • How national political polarization affects small-town governments.

  • What the Mount Laurel Doctrine means for affordable housing in NJ.

  • The value of listening and transparency in political leadership.

  • How Six Sigma strategies works in business—and public service.

  • Real-world consequences of recent U.S. tariff policy from a global trade professional.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:03:00] The structure of Cranbury’s local government and Lisa’s role as mayor

  • [00:07:00] Breaking down the affordable housing mandate and land challenges

  • [00:14:00] How partisan behavior has filtered into local meetings

  • [00:24:00] Six Sigma in practice: business problem-solving that works

  • [00:27:00] Why abrupt tariff policy changes hurt American businesses

  • [00:34:00] Lisa’s close election win and continued work with her predecessor

  • [00:45:00] Remembering the best of our communities post-pandemic

  • [00:53:00] Lisa’s campaign to bring back civility in politics

Featured Quotes:

“At the local level, I wish I didn’t even have to declare my party. It feels absolutely irrelevant.” – Lisa Willey Knierim

“You’ve got to create a vanilla ice cream environment—not too spicy. Be compassionate, be practical, be human.”

“National-level problems shouldn’t be light-switch decisions.”

“It’s not that I can’t solve the problem. But I can listen. That’s halfway there.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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Beyond Outrage and Misperceptions: Building the Muscles for Democracy (with More In Common's Kate Carney)

Monday May 05, 2025

Monday May 05, 2025

In this episode, Corey Nathan sits down with Kate Carney, Deputy Director at More in Common. Kate shares her fascinating journey—from working in Congress to boating 6,000 miles around the U.S.—and how those experiences shape her work today. The conversation centers on More in Common’s new report, The Connection Opportunity, and explores how we can foster meaningful relationships across political, racial, religious, and socioeconomic divides.

What's Discussed:

  • Why social connection is critical to healthy democracy.

  • Surprising data on Americans’ openness to diverse perspectives.

  • How psychological factors like intergroup anxiety impact connection.

  • Kate’s transformative journey completing the Great American Loop.

  • Real-world solutions for bridging divides in your own community.

Episode Highlights:

  • 02:00 – Kate’s 6,000-mile boat journey and what it taught her about America.

  • 10:00 – The Connection Opportunity: How More in Common is reframing social cohesion.

  • 21:00 – Why politics remains the most difficult line of difference to cross.

  • 25:00 – The power of community norms and intergroup anxiety.

  • 32:00 – Revisiting the "Hidden Tribes" report and what’s changed since its release.

  • 41:00 – The seven levers of change for increasing social connection.

  • 48:00 – How cities like Kansas City, Houston and Pittsburgh are fostering community dialogue.

  • 54:00 – Personal agency and why democracy starts with you.

Featured Quotes:
“We are inherently diverse. To build strong communities, we have to be intentional about connecting across our differences.” — Kate Carney
“The more people connect across difference, the more they want to—it’s a cascade.” — Kate Carney
“There’s an overwhelming desire to have these conversations. It’s the fortress of assumptions that gets in our way.” — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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Trump's Attack on Decency and Your Constitutional Rights: Why It's NOT Normal

Friday May 02, 2025

Friday May 02, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reflects on where we stand as a country several months into the current administration. With candor and conviction, Corey explores the themes of democracy, decency, and due process. Drawing from scripture, the Constitution, and commentary by thought leaders like David Brooks and Mike Madrid, this episode delivers a compelling, timely snapshot of America’s civic health—and what’s at stake moving forward.

What's Discussed:

  • Why the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments are more important than ever

  • The consequences of immigration policies that bypass due process

  • How the economy (including tariffs and inflation) is impacting voters

  • What swayed key constituencies in the 2024 election

  • What to watch for heading into 2026 and 2028

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:02:00] Framing the episode: A “temperature check” on America

  • [00:05:00] The First Amendment under threat

  • [00:07:00] Due process and the constitutional rights of all persons

  • [00:14:00] What really moved voters in 2024 (spoiler: price of eggs + immigration)

  • [00:17:00] A powerful quote from David Brooks on civilizational foundations

  • [00:22:00] Legal attacks and a defense of constitutional law

  • [00:29:00] Polling data showing shifts in public opinion

  • [00:34:00] Real-world impact on families, students, and small businesses

Featured Quotes:

  • “Nor shall any person be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.”
  • “Don’t talk to me about Donald Trump being a brilliant businessman—he’s a brilliant thief.”
  • “For me, it’s about democracy and decency. Always has been.”

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
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E.J. Dionne: "Come, Let Us Reason Together" | Resisting Extremism and the Path to National Healing

Monday Apr 28, 2025

Monday Apr 28, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan talks with renowned journalist, scholar, and public intellectual E.J. Dionne Jr. E.J. is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a syndicated columnist for The Washington Post, a professor at Georgetown University, and a prolific author. Together, they discuss democracy, faith, political polarization, and the enduring need for real argument and hope in public life.

What We Discuss:

  • How E.J.’s upbringing shaped his approach to political debate and dialogue.

  • Why engaging seriously with opposing ideas is crucial to democracy.

  • The difference between optimism and hope — and why hope is essential.

  • How faith and civil society contribute to repairing societal divisions.

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:03:00] E.J. shares how his father encouraged open political debate.

  • [00:06:00] Reflections on DEI, the “woke” debates, and critiques of excesses.

  • [00:10:00] The Trump administration’s unintended role in uniting pro-democracy groups.

  • [00:15:00] Anger and economic grievances in Fall River, Massachusetts.

  • [00:24:00] Why hope, not just optimism, is vital for public life.

  • [00:36:00] E.J.’s personal faith journey and the importance of humble belief.

  • [00:48:00] Reflections on Pope Francis’ legacy and the Catholic Church.

  • [01:05:00] What worries E.J. about democracy today — and what gives him hope.

Featured Quotes:
"In real argument, you enter imaginatively into the ideas your opponent holds." — E.J. Dionne
"Hope is the virtue on which faith and love depend." — E.J. Dionne
"You can really disagree with people you love, and you can love people you disagree with." — E.J. Dionne
"We find sanctity even in mundane conversations." — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

📘 Souled Out: Reclaiming Faith and Politics after the Religious Right - Princeton University Press

📰 E.J. Dionne's column at The Washington Post – www.washingtonpost.com/people/ej-dionne-jr

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
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The Unflinching Eye: McKay Coppins on Journalism, the Threats to Our Freedoms and the Power of Inquiry

Thursday Apr 24, 2025

Thursday Apr 24, 2025

🎙️Award-winning journalist and Atlantic staff writer McKay Coppins joins us to explore the delicate intersections of politics, faith, and journalism. From shadowing Donald Trump to chronicling the political journey of Mitt Romney, McKay shares what it takes to pursue truth in turbulent times.

What We Discuss:

  • What it’s like getting rare access to Trump, Romney, and the Murdochs

  • How to navigate political rationalizations without losing your soul

  • McKay’s writing rituals and creative process

  • The powerful role of curiosity in building bridges across divides

  • Why faith and civic life matter more than ever

Episode Highlights:

00:02:00 – McKay’s infamous 2014 Trump profile and its surprising legacy
00:10:00 – How luck and sincere curiosity lead to exclusive access
00:16:00 – Late nights, caps lock, and McKay’s writing habits
00:29:00 – The chilling effect of political intimidation on journalism
00:41:00 – Why many GOP leaders stay silent—and what Romney heard behind the scenes
00:50:00 – Do you lose your soul in politics? A deep dive
00:57:00 – The spiritual vacuum in modern America and how faith might fill it
01:02:00 – Why curiosity is the cure for today’s civic divide

Featured Quotes:

"He seemed like he desperately wanted affirmation all the time... and it was like empty calories." 
"To be somebody who has faith is to constantly have it tested and to have it evolve."
"We need leaders thinking more about their obituaries than the next news cycle."
"Curiosity is an underrated virtue in politics."

Resources Mentioned:

📘 Romney: A Reckoning – Simon and Schuster
📘 The Wilderness – Hachette Book Group
📰 McKay’s articles at The Atlantic – Visit

📣 Call to Action:

If you found this conversation insightful, please:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.
✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion
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I Was Right About the Law, But My Delivery Was WRONG: How to Discuss Threats to Our Rights Without Being a Jerk

Monday Apr 21, 2025

Monday Apr 21, 2025

In this episode, host Corey Nathan shares a candid reflection about a recent encounter where he was right on the facts and the law—but completely wrong in how he presented them. Yet if we're honest with ourselves about when we make mistakes, it's a good opportunity to learn, reminding us that how we communicate is just as important as what we communicate.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why being right on the law isn’t enough in a conversation

  • How righteous anger can derail productive dialogue

  • Why due process matters for everyone—especially those who aren't guilty of crimes

  • Tools for engaging in hard conversations with empathy and curiosity

  • How the Constitution and Judeo-Christian values intersect in public discourse

Episode Highlights:

  • [00:02:00] Corey introduces the story and the key lesson he learned

  • [00:05:00] Breakdown of the Alien Enemies Act and a real legal case

  • [00:06:45] A stranger challenges Corey at a restaurant

  • [00:07:30] Corey "goes Jersey" and loses his cool

  • [00:13:00] What due process really protects and why it matters

  • [00:16:00] How Isaac Saul, David Brooks, and Mónica Guzmán inspired a better way to respond

  • [00:18:00] Reading the First and Fifth Amendments to ground the conversation

Featured Quotes:

  • "I was completely right on the facts, but I was completely wrong on the delivery." — Corey Nathan
  • "Due process is there for the innocent just as much as the guilty—even more so for the innocent." — Corey Nathan
  • "Ask at least three questions before making your point." — inspired by Isaac Saul

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